LCA tejas vs JF 17

The purpose of this post is to briefly compare the LCA tejas with the the Chinese JF-17 (non biased). More information will be added as it is received.
The LCA is the smallest and the lightest light combat aircraft in world which the is indigenously designed by the India’s ADA. It is planed to replace the aging Mig 21 series aircraft and be front line mulitmission single seat tactical aircraft. LCA features State of the art avionics and beyond the visual range system including advanced fly-by-wire system.
The JF 17 is a joint project between China and Pakistan and the plane features as a all weather multipurpose light fighter and the aircraft is features with up to date avionics with only medium range missiles, but is also capable of carrying air to air missiles.
Considering the Beyond Visual Range capability of the two fighters, the LCA beats the JF 17 by a light year mainly because Pakistan is used to getting the job done with Sparrows and JF 17 is only equiped with SD 10s. LCA is equipped to carry all the next generation missiles that the SU 30mki carries along with the capability of carrying several advanced BVR missiles like AA-10 Alamo, AA-12 Adder, MICA and maybe even Derby. But the main component is the India’s own Indigenous BVR missile, Astra.
Moving on to good old dogfighting. To compare between the two on dogfighting criteria it is a little bit shaky. LCA has delta wings and no tailplanes; considering this fact LCA is more agile and maneuverable.
FC 1 will be equipped with AIM-9x and Sidewinder missiles. On the contrary LCA will be equipped AA-11 Archer, AIM-9p and with the extremely lethal Israeli Python 4 and 5.
We clearly have winner in Avionics; LCA. From Globalsecurity:

The glass cockpit and hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls reduce pilot workload. Accurate navigation and weapon aiming information on the head up display helps the pilot achieve his mission effectively. The multifunction displays provide information on engine, hydraulics, electrical, flight control and environmental control system on a need-to-know basis along with basic flight and tactical information. Dual redundant display processors (DP) generate computer-generated imagery on these displays. The pilot interacts with the complex avionics systems through a simple multifunction keyboard, and function and sensor selection panels. A state-of-the-art multi-mode radar (MMR), laser designator pod (LDP), forward looking infra-red (FLIR) and other opto-electronic sensors provide accurate target information to enhance kill probabilities. A ring laser gyro (RLG)-based inertial navigation system (INS), provides accurate navigation guidance to the pilot. An advanced electronic warfare (EW) suite enhances the aircraft survivability during deep penetration and combat. Secure and jam-resistant communication systems, such as IFF, VHF/UHF and air-to-air/air-to-ground data link are provided as a part of the avionics suite. All these systems are integrated on three 1553B buses by a centralised 32-bit mission computer (MC) with high throughput which performs weapon computations and flight management, and reconfiguration/redundancy management. Reversionary mission functions are provided by a control and coding unit (CCU). Most of these subsystems have been developed indigenously.
lca.jpg
Avionic info on the JF 17 is very vague. From Globalsecurity:

The aircraft has the ability to engage targets at all speeds and altitudes within the conventional flying envelope. In the surface attack and interdiction role, the aircraft can strike at long distances. The combat jet has been installed with an advanced flight control system, which is a mix of conventional and fly-by-wire controls, making it highly agile and maneuverable.

In conclusion it is very hard to say which fighter plane has the edge but we can clearly see that LCA has better avionics (some sources may argue) and BVR making it a better futuristic thus a 4.5 Generation aircraft while the JF 17 is still considered a 3rd Generation, but has greater close combat capabilty. But both aircrafts ae good start for both the countries. Which airplane is better the LCA or the JF 17, please comment.

**Update**

First of all thank you all for commenting and sharing many interesting information with others. BUT, Please try posting facts and NOT posting anti-Pakistan or anti-India comments. The purpose of this post is to deepen the understanding of both the aircrafts.

**Update**

Some people are commenting that their previous posts were deleted. This reason for this is because a lot posts with anti-india, and anti-pakistan comments were posted and abusive languages were noticed. Please argue with facts and dont do personal attacks. If you want the your comments posted again please take out those offensive stuff. Or the comment will be edited from abusive stuff. This is purely an aerospace forum and talk with respect to each other wherever you are from.

478 Responses to “LCA tejas vs JF 17”

  1. Python Says:

    if FC-1 and JF-17 are indeed going to have AIM-9X missiles then they have a clear edge on LCA, unless LCA is equipped with Python 5.

  2. Ajay Says:

    jf-17 have thrust vestoring which the f-22 has.
    i’m sure with a few upgrades it could become a 5th generation fighter.
    @python
    Pakistani jf-17s will be equiped with AIM-120C ARAAMS(range=105km).

  3. Jabbar Says:

    Well, the Indians always somehow assumes they are good. So, The LCA tejas jet has been provided help by the USA, Russia and Isreal, Is it ready for some action or not? Now, JF-17 is being used in the Air force of Pakistan and china. The Indian plane is stated to extremely premitive by the western country, and JF-17 was considered about equal to F-16. It only took 4 years to meke and fly the JF-17, whereas the Indians are still fixing the issues with their little plane..come India get real,,, you cannot match Pakistan.

  4. Python Says:

    Ha ha ha cannot match Pakistanis who have not even done anything to built JF-17 except given money to their chinese masters. Anyway why are chinese and pakis buying the engine from Russians if they are so advanced…ha ha ha !!!

  5. Keizer Says:

    please…the J-17 does not have thrust vectoring…the PAki’s can’t spell thrust vectoring even if i smack em in the head with a brick…India is on a whole different level…and no matter how advanced PAK really gets…realistically speaking…PAK can’t win a war against India…conventional or nuclear…in three years entire Paki strategic arsenal becomes useless as India erects its ballistic and cruise missle defence interceptors…in 5 years Indian air space will impenetrable,,, J-17 uses the same mig-29 engine…that India builds at home…and LCA…on every count will be far more capable than the..J-17…the kaveri engine is more powerful…the kaveri will feature thrust vectoring…and LCA being so small..naturally has a very low rcs…plus…the final version will feature better ram…and will be fitted with an Israeli AESA radar…on every count it is way better than j-17 …and btw when the LCA is finally inducted…it will be more adavnced…than many aircraft like the EF typhoon, Rafale…simply because it will carry AESA radars…to start with…the KAveri engine is more powerful than the Eurojet and the engines on the Rafale…plus LCA has better thrust to weight ratio and a 27:1 pressure ratio the highest so far…this will allow the LCA to supercruise far beyond mach 1.3 without reheat…easy…simply because it s small jet…and dont even start with the agility of a delta wing…Pak still has a long way to go…besides…LCA is under going probably one of the most rigorous testing phase…any aircraft has ever go through before…and believe me…IAF is so good…we have been invited to REd flag next year…only the finest and the most well trained pilots are invited to red flag…we know what we are doing and its because IAF sets very high standards the LCA had and still has to be improved and therefore we have had delays …we operate…the most feared aicraft in the west su-30mki…the LCA will of the same gen or more and MKI is 4.5 gen…its only missing stealth…PAF thinks the red flag is truly just a red flag…listen dont compare these two nations…its best…u’ll find ur self working really hard to try and defend PAK…if it comes to war…India will level PAK in about 36 hours….give or take…

  6. Joe Simmons Says:

    Please do not underestimate Pakis. In 1971 they reached
    Vizak Naval base to sink vikrant. India couldn”t reach
    Islamabad. With AIM9X Pakis have a definite edge. In Kargil we lost 3 aircrafts to shoulder fired missiles. Lets not brag about tejas, 23 years we have built only 3 aircrafts.

  7. Python Says:

    yes I agree this is worrisome, pakis are getting AIM-9X plus BVR missiles for the first time. But still i think israeli Python4 & Python 5 are the best in the world. Israeli’s made their own Python missiles as they were not happy with earlier versions of AIM-9 misssiles. Remember they are the only ones who have used Pythons and killed so many arab planes. Don’t know how good is their Derby BVR though…, I hope LCA Tejas gets Python 5 + French Meteor for BVR.

  8. THUNDER Says:

    I think that there r some ppl in india whom think that Pakistan is not a easy prey and they r right.but some ppl also think that they hav got a big country and they hav worlds third biggest army and they r champions of the world.
    python says that pakistan only give money to china
    while india also give money to italy and france to buy the tejas light weight engine parts which ” a son of poor ” is not in its real state that his manufacturer thought thirty years back.
    Now the missiles your own army says that pakistans technology in ballistic missiles are far more advanced and reliable than india’s.Indias Defence research and development organisation(DRDO) was heard as saying that it would scrap its 25 year old integrated guided missile development programme(IGMDP) by the end of this year.plagued by cost over runs and repeated failures,the announcement is a virtual admission of failure”,”infact,some former chiefs of the differnt sevices said as much on hearing the news”.
    Spaking of the trishul surface to air missile that has now been termed a technology demonstrator, former naval chief SUSHIL KUMAR said:”it was a national embarrasment.DRDO made fake claims for 25 years.in the 1999 war the indian navy was vulnerable to attacks from PAKISTANS harpoon.
    the mail today quoted S.PRAHLADA, chief of the control research and development,DRDO, as saying that development and production of most of the futuristic weapon systems would henceforth be undrtaken with foreign collaboration which is clearly admission of a failure and DRDO make there country ppl fool for atleast 3 decades.while regard to nuke capable agni 1 and 2 series, he quoted that they had been tested five times before their induction but Indian army said that a handful tests are not enough to prove a missiles worth
    On the other hand pakistan has always been a step ahead
    of India in its missile progrmme,Islamabad has a much more reboust missile force than India one CAPABLE OF LAUNCHING NUKE TO ANY PART OF THE INDIA.
    UNLIKE INDIAN MISSILE which were declared inducted after a few tests, the pakistani projectiles have always been thoroughly tested.

  9. THUNDER Says:

    sorry my brother keizier you hav to add infinite zeros with 36 to level PAK because we do not fuck our co lady pilots as your pilots do.our bloachs and pathans are enough for your country MY dear
    aslaamoalekum

  10. Indian Tiger Says:

    When ever i came to read post of peoples like Jabbar and thunder i picture a definition of PAKISTAN:- enemy of INDIA who can’t win from INDIA till the earth last. This fact is known to every body in the world and even Pakistani forces also know this. But some one who believes that Pakistan is not only equal but ahead of India are poor Pakistani nationals like some one i mentioned above.
    India is big country by following reasons:-
    A. Big by land mass and peoples.
    B. A democratic country by every means.
    C. Large natural resource base.
    D. Skilled man power. With winners in I.T
    E. World class Education Institutions.(IIT’s and IIM’s)
    India is a country of diversity and a political system consisting of politicians who work hard throughout 5 years just to keep there Govt. running. Instead of these India is developing fast.
    DRDO has done a great job for India. It dared to took challenge to develop technologies. Now even meet with failures and delays which is usual in first attempt. Instead of all it developed a world class infrastructure with plenty of world class SUB-Systems. In India a single failures overlaps a hundred success. Some success of DRDO are as follows:-
    1. A potent warship building capability.
    2. Advanced Light Helicopter.
    3. Pinaka MBRLS
    4. They are genius in RWR, SONARS accepted Admiral Sushil Kumar.
    5. Locally designed & developed planes like HPT-32,HF-24 marut, H.J.T-16, I.J.T, L.C.A. SARAS, HANSA
    6. Industry to licence produce planes like Mig-21, Mig-23, Mig-27, Jaguar and many more.
    And indian defence industry is not just dependent on DRDO TATA , L & T, Smtel(world best in AMLCD displays of fighter) etc are coming in defence world.

    Now LCA vs JF-17
    Lca- designed and being developed in India
    JF-17-designed and being developed in china

    Avionics(LCA)- most are local now will reach close to 90% when production begins.
    Avionics(JF-17)- Mix of western and Chines (non of them is pakistani)

    Radar(LCA)- rest of the radar coupled with Israeli phase array antenna
    Radar(JF-17)- chines or Italian

    Engine(LCA)- Kaveri (technical assistance of France)
    Engine(JF-17)- Russian or Chines(developed with Russian assistance)
    F.C.S(LCA)-Fly-By-Wire, Quadriplex from first flight developed by A.D.A.
    F.C.S(JF-17)-Fly-By-Wire but for only ruder till now developed by china.

    Air Frame(LCA)- 45% composite developed in India for better speed, low maintenance, long life(low fatigue), better RCS and hi ‘g’ performance.
    Air Frame(JF-17)- Its has a mig-21 class aluminium air frame which will have Vice -Versa of above features.
    So where is So-called Pakistani about JF-17.
    Fact about JF-17 is that china made this jet on Pakistani money(donated by USA) to sale them to the countries of 4 th world like PAKISTAN to keep it’s defence industry running. In fact JF-17 is a scrap made for earning money and nothing else by china. If some body say re-engine Mig-21, equip it with a AESA and BVRAAM then it will become a 4th gen jet then JF-17 is nothing but a improved mig-21.
    And if just licence manufacturing of JF-17 made it a Pakistani home grown jet then what about SU-30MKI which has many Indian parts installed like Tarang RWR, Mission Computer(Malaysia is also importing) etc. Think again you boys before saying any thing about DRDO.
    (DRDO has transformed india from a buyer to a co-developer with active technology sharing not just money sharing.) And world knows that whole of ur(pakistani) so-called indigenous products are painted,stolen,licence produced(applicable to ur nuclear tec, missiles ,Super Mushaq, K-8 AJT now JF-17).
    So guys wake up.

    FEW QUESTIONS FOR THOSE WHO COMPARE INDIA WITH PAKISTAN.
    Q-1 Had pakistan won any war from India?
    Q-2 Can pakistan match Indian I.T industry
    Q-3 Can pakistan match Indian defence industry as far as making Delhi Class destroyers with home grown electronics.
    Q-4 Can pakistan match I.S.R.O
    Q-5 not required

  11. abstrat26 Says:

    With regards to your questions
    A-1 Both armies fought well, with battles being won and lost by both sides in 65 and 71. There were brave soldiers on both side who fought till end.

    Indians always have been much better planners in terms of destabilizing Pakistan. The way they got Bangladesh created in 1971 is just one example. I personally believe that india has huge hand in stuff going on in Pakistan right now.

    A-2 Ofcourse not. However i dont see how it will help them win war. IT is something different. War is fought by soldiers not IT professionals. Secondly, you should also check out the poverty level in India. With such a large population the number of IT professional produced by india is no surprise..

    A-3 India too acquires parts for building aircrafts, tanks or missiles.

    A-4 Indeed they are much advanced and have spent more money in space research but Pakistan is getting there. Sometimes its better to do things in secrecy. Babur Missle !!!!

    In terms of comparison, it is to be remembered that it is not only the aircraft but the pilot skill level that counts too. Finally you cant really compare until or unless both go head on.

    Note: Remember at the end, its quite hard to trust an enemy who has caused so much harm to Pakistan. and no matter how much talks or trade is taking place…Another war is in the making.

  12. Asvin Says:

    It is just futile to argue with Pakis.They believe their own propaganda dished out by their Military.It is just that they are unaware of the huge ocean outside their small well.I will not be surprised if they say tomorrow that they can defeat the USA in a war (War is the only thing they can think of, it being the refuge of the deprived).

  13. ITtiger Says:

    Pakistan is itself on a path to self-destruction. I wonder if we really need a plane to destroy them… ;)

  14. Kashif Says:

    Pakistan Zinda Bad & Pakistan Painda Bad
    Pakistan Zinda Bad & Pakistan Painda Bad
    Pakistan Zinda Bad & Pakistan Painda Bad
    Pakistan Zinda Bad & Pakistan Painda Bad
    Pakistan Zinda Bad & Pakistan Painda Bad

  15. Smile Says:

    Is it any thing else to talk about?? Or anyone just wanted to destroy each other with bombarding through words??? If anyone wants to analyze fairly, the 2 nations are so far from the destination. Might be India is Superior than the Pakistan in different aspects. But it is also true that in some ways Pakistan far ahead from India. And the wise people accept it across the border. So, who have Tiger’s Eye or who have Lion’s Heart?? Please don’t waste time on that type of stupidities. We have to do lot of work we should keep our eyes on future. Coz the future belongs to today’s 3rd world, belongs to us.
    Regards,

  16. Indian Tiger Says:

    I just wanted 2 say through my earlier comment, that u can’t compare India and Pakistan. They r different.
    *India looks future in making herself a developed country from all 3 dimensions.
    *Pakistan looks future in destroying India.

    And with regard to abstrat26’s comment.
    <I just want 2 say don’t undermine facts just 4 the shake of friendship. India won 65’s and 71’s that’s a fact. Dose’t matter how the men fought the war. Wt. i asked. Had Pakistan won any war 4rm India now i add can and ever.
    <I.T is the heart and soul of defence arms. And this is a fact. e.g HCL worked 4 C-27, boeing 777. T.C.S helped hal in designing L.C.H etc
    <BABUR:- A stolen product of A.Q.Khan nexus. Originally named KORSHUN a ukrainian LACM. Developed by Ukraine’s Dnipropetrovsk-based Yuzhnoye State Design Bureau. It’s blue print was stolen by A.Q.Khan and pakistan(FORCE July 2007 pg 58). Funded by Iran. Later fabricated and tested by chinese. I have said all this not to comment on babur’s lethality. Just wanted to show another fake claim to project pakistan superior. Just bcoz we developed our Brahmos with Russians. This is where the difference is. We openly accept wt. ever we take 4rm outside and they claim it a fully indigenous product.
    Pilots Skill:-Nothing 2 say. Indian pilots had already shown in wars and practices with other countries(N.A.T.O)

    With regard 2 Smile’s comment.
    It’s Very Important to show the enemy it’s real face. Other wise if they started seeing themselves as LIONS in their own eyes. Then as an aggressor they will strike u first. And irrespective of whatever u have 1st strike hurts. That is why military power is projected(by showing or writing) to scare the enemy and show them their real face. So that it can’t think of striking 1st. This is not the waste of time. Take my word, im some one who is responsible to do this duty. Thanks 2 all who commented.

  17. brother Says:

    OK what are we fighting for. have we forgotten about the blood we spilled during the 1965 and 1971 wars. have we forgotten what happened in 1947. when thoes harami britishers seperated us. are if forgetting the blood we spilled during that time. if we have to compete with someone than lets compête with europeans and americans who are using us their own advantage.

  18. iaf Says:

    o pakis apne ko samahalo yaron tum ne to duba diya apna pyara batan.

  19. tiger Says:

    DRDO does everything in secret .u cannot undermine its capability .its really time for pak to mend its way .thats solve

  20. tiger Says:

    thats solve.i dnt talk much but tellu the truth

  21. BrownMan Says:

    FIRST OF ALL stop fighting about the countries as a whole and focus what this fourm is about the jets
    babur-there is a differece between the two range and speeds of babur and bramos

    babur- i am not sure about the whole uxbekistan controverse but i am 100% sure that the babur was made after an american tomohawk was by accident by the us navy at pakistan and pakistan later used the unused tomohawk to create a paistani copy( which is very said since they were only able to create a medium range missile campared to ,the tomohawk a longrange missile or the bramos a supersonic missile non of these missiles are in the same catigory which brings me back to my point why campare bramos to babur when you should campare the nirbhay to the babur well not really since the nirhbay is also longe range india has no mediam range since it longrange which is better.

    and the fighter air crafts here are some articles

    Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder – An AnalysisComments (12) | Trackback
    Published Sunday, April 01, 2007 by Mihir.

    “On March 23 2007, two JF-17 “Thunder” fighters took to the skies for the first time in Pakistan as a part of the Pakistan Day celebrations. Touted to be Pakistan’s first home made fighter, the JF-17 is expected to be the Pakistan Air Force’s frontline fighter well into the future. With this article, I’ve made an attempt to examine the JF-17 in the Indo-Pak context. But first, some background information on the program.
    The program began in 1986 as the Super-7, when China signed a $550 million deal with Grumman to modernise its fleet of J-7 (MiG-21s manufactured in China under license) fighters. The United States ceased technical assistance following the Tiananmen Square massacre of 1989, and the project almost ground to a halt. However, Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC) managed to keep the program alive with its own resources, as the FC-1. The project got a new lease of life in 1999, when Pakistan and China signed an agreement to “jointly” develop and produce the FC-1 with both countries contributing 50% of the funds. Russia’s Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group provided technical assistance. The FC-1 (Designated JF-17 “Thunder” by Pakistan) was supposed to be a lightweight all-weather multi-role fighter, which would replace Pakistan’s fleet of Mirage-III, F-7, and A-5 aircraft, whose safety record is going downhill by the day. The Pakistani version would sport a Western avionics suite, which included the Italian Galileo Avionica Grifo S7 radar, a variant of which is already in service with the Pakistan Air Force on its F-7 fighters. It would be powered by one Russian Klimov RD-93 turbofan. The “Aviation Week & Space Technology” magazine reported in November 2006 that “Pakistani officials expect the first contract for 16 aircraft (split equally with China) to be awarded next year, with deliveries as early as 2007. A full-rate production contract would follow around 2009. Initially, Pakistan will provide 58% of the parts, but that is supposed to increase gradually to 100%.” The overall Pakistani requirement is expected to be around 150 fighters.

    Although the Pakistanis tried to demonstrate with the Pakistan Day flypast that everything was tickety-boo, this is far from the truth. The Western avionics are nowhere to be seen, and supplier decisions do not appear to have been made. Radar integration, a challenging job under the best of circumstances, seems to have run into problems. The task is complicated in no small part by the lack of space available in the JF-17’s radome. It is now widely claimed that the first batch of Pakistani JF-17s will be equipped with Chinese avionics and radar. The weapons package is yet to be finalised. While China is expected to push its PL-9 dogfight missile and the yet untested SD-10 beyond visual range air to air missile, the South Africans have reportedly offered their A-Darter and T-Darter missiles. In January 2007, the head of the Russian Defence Ministry’s International Cooperation Department, Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich, announced that Russia had “denied China the right to supply its JF-17 fighter aircraft powered by Russian RD-93 engines to third countries, asking it to sign an end-user certificate for the engines”. In Indian circles, this was taken to be a total Russian denial. Sinodefence.com, a Chinese military website reports that while five RD-93s have been purchased to power the prototypes, an agreement on the further purchase and re-export of the engine is still pending. To make things worse, the Chinese have yet to make any firm commitments, and appear to have lost interest in inducting the FC-1, preferring the more capable J-10 instead.

    Given development time-frame and mission profile, comparisons between the JF-17 and India’s “Tejas” light combat aircraft are inevitable. But similarities, if any, are merely superficial. The Tejas, meant to replace India’s massive fleet of MiG-21s, is a wholly different project as far as technology is concerned. Its airframe, made of advanced carbon fibre composites, is light years ahead of the Thunder’s all-metal airframe. The ADA, HAL, and NAL invested considerable time, effort, and resources in its development, and came up with what is arguably one of the finest airframes in the world. The same goes for the Tejas’ aerodynamics which, because of the compound delta-wing, extensive wing-body blending, and low wing loading are superior to those of the Thunder, which has a more conventional layout along the lines of the MiG-21, the F-16, and a rejected Soviet light fighter design. As far as flight dynamics and control go, the Tejas, with its relaxed static stability and quadruplex, full authority fly-by-wire digital flight control system, is far more advanced than the Thunder, which still features conventional controls (fly-by-wire exists only for pitch control). The Tejas then, is a state of the art combat aircraft which will be India’s first step towards self-reliance. Program wise, it is more comparable to the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale, considering not just the technology involved, but also the scope of the project. In the light of this argument, its longer timeline is hardly surprising. But the Thunder, despite Pakistan’s best efforts to package it as “indigenous”, is anything but. Pakistan’s contribution to the design and development of the project is close to nothing. Even today, the plane does not sport any Pakistani systems. It is at best a cheap and low/medium-tech Chinese aircraft that Pakistan can mass produce. As Siva, a contributor on Bharat Rakshak points out, the JF-17 is more comparable to the HJT-36 Sitara intermediate jet trainer – since both have an all-metal airframe, conventional controls, and an externally sourced engine. And the Sitara was developed even faster than the Thunder.

    This is not to say that the JF-17 is a bad aircraft. It will serve a very important purpose by giving Pakistan valuable experience in fighter aircraft manufacturing. It will help Pakistan rid itself of dependence on American weapons. It will give the flagging Pakistan Air Force a shot in the arm by beefing up numbers and providing it with decent beyond visual range combat capability. Dismissing it as “worthless” would be nothing short of stupid. My friend and aviation enthusiast Kartik sums it up beautifully: “If the Pakistanis integrate even a medium performance radar and use the SD-10 with it, it is a big threat to the Indian Air Force – just look at the MiG-21 Bison to see what an underestimated fighter can turn out to be. The Sukhoi Su-30K was also found to be a poor aircraft when the IAF first evaluated it, and then after all sweat and toil put into getting its avionics in place and the thrust vector controls, the Su-30MKI is a completely different beast! I somehow fear that the JF-17 shouldn’t prove to be a fighter that makes the Fulcrums, Mirages, Bisons almost on-par or just a little superior. Which is why the IAF needs a true fourth generation fighter to stay ahead – both airframe wise as well as avionics wise”

  22. Rapter Says:

    Dude Lca is the only plane in the world which has capability of achievein supersonic in any altitude try 2 beat that yaar !!!

  23. decimator108 Says:

    wait and watch. the true winner always show at the last. tejas will surely beat the rest
    its the time when india will be the international hub all the global activities… and to no surprise we have to be that way (remember at one time india contributed 33% of the world’s total gdp and which till now has not been ever achieved by even us). india is the best and iaf the best of all. jai hind

  24. Daywalker Says:

    i am Indian and proud to be one too…Tejas is a great aircraft in its class we have to admit tht..but one has to admit the fact that the cost overruns it has incurred over the years.it took more than 20 damn years to get to a demonstratin stage..and would tke many more years to get to production stage.its rather embarrassin..Wht we should do is to have a joint programme with a country..like in the case of Brahmos(a tie up between Russia and Iindia)

  25. Airline Fuel » LCA tejas vs JF 17 Indian Aerospace News and Affairs Says:

    [...] Did you like this brief introduction? Find out about it in full detail here. [...]

  26. Brownman Says:

    -Babur is a reverse engineered tomohawk and not a good one at that
    -Only reason babur was made was to protect it self from Brahmos and it cant do that so it was given a perpose of a short range cruise missile
    -there is proven data that lca will have a partial stealth status because of its almost all composite body which acts natural as a radar obsorbent material(rom) and lca will have more rom applied on top
    -Lca has already been outclassed the gripen in tests and is on par with f-16 block50 and will have improved ability by 2012 (first inducted squadron)
    -all chinese airplanes are supposily improved rissiun migs
    but have proved to be unsuporior and almost the whole chinese amred forces uses copies of other militaries vehicles and weopan ect everyone knows it they have copied the humwve, the ak47,migs,other assult rifles,and many missiles mostly soviet union cold war era. And all their fighter jets are compies not a single is indiginous. There is a document on online on how china copies forign products becasue connot get liceanse and does not want pay for lisence.
    -There for all pakistan has is chinese waeste that they dont want even the chise air force wont use the j-17 the are working on the j-xx and buying su30-mkk so all pakistan is getting is backwash so china could get some profit
    geatly improving its ability

  27. ur daddy Says:

    Where is the lca?
    8 jf-17 have rolled out
    where is the lca?

  28. stupidpoorpeople Says:

    Wow, what an enimosity we people have. Personally I think both countries should spend less on military and more on the well being of its people. But when I read comments like ‘Who won the wars’ make me feel how stupid our people are. Be realistic. How can a country ten times bigger in resources, army, airforce, navy, weapons etc claim to win a war when its not able to crush a country ten times smaller in might? A successful defence of the smaller country would constitute a win. India should have captured
    Pakistan by now if its army is so ‘great and powerful’. India always was first to start nuclear program, missile race etc. Come on guys. Pakistan has to counter that. Be realistic and understanding. And why would Pakistan even think to attack and try to capture a country ten times greater. Its Indians who have the disgusting mentality of “Akhand Baharat” and still think Pakistan as part of India. This is the root cause of all the problems. And since when in history India was a single country? Talking about Mughal rule? They were foreign occupants and invaders who combined India as one country. In any other Hindu history, India had never been one country. It was divided into so called smaller states in which gods were always fighting with each other. whenever I spoke to any Indian, they always seem to regret the separation. If a separated person is happy, why the other person so regretful and have bad intention to hold the other agianst its will? Is that called democracy? Is it not happening in Kashmir. This is what you call democracy? And what democracy we are talking about here, corrupt politicians, military personall (receiving kickbacks in arms deals etc). Wake up people. Both Pakistan and India can stay separate, resolve the issues with the wishes of its people (that what democracy means), and still create an economic block.
    But you know who will not be happy with it. You know that. It will be the corrupt (almost all) politicians, military and forein powers who want to sell their weapons that we both are “proud of”. Be realistic people. There is no such thing an ‘indigineous’ with us. We are desperate to kill the other “part” if they dont want to live with us. I feel like
    living in stone age where people cannot understand the very basic reason for being poor. Our people are destined to stay poor unless we change our mentality. Stop comparing and braging about these foreign assisted toys and get togather economically so that every person in our
    countries can sleep under his own roof after feeding his children.

  29. great99 Says:

    see you all, no point in comparing india and pakistan. Pakistan is simply hopeless.
    Look into the future.
    Talking about the democracy, no doubt India is The Largest Democracy. A pakistani Rickshaw driver said (TOI) ” i can smell freedom in air in India”. Needless to say, During 99’s Kargil war , Nawaz Shariff didn’t even knew what their army was doing. He was betrayed.

    Talking about size and population, Israel is a much smaller country than Khazakistaan. Where on Earth you beleive Kazakh. can defeat israel. Simply hopless to say.

    Faliures come when you try. they won’t come simply if you do nothing.

    Seems today pakistan takes a step towards democracy. We have to jointly fight poverty terrorism and other destructive elements. Many reports show Pakistan is the most dangerous state in Wolrd to liive in.

    Even if LCA was not enough, India begins to develop MCA (medium Combat Aircraft ). Talking about Brahmos, you can’t argue Inda’s contribution iin Developing it. It has 32 times more kinetic energy AS Tomahawk.

    Point is where do you stand. India Stand nowhere against USA and has very little chance against USA. IN 1971 India has a fare chance of occupying Islamabad, if ceasefire was not called up by the P.M.
    It’s the time for Pakistaanis to realise their true enemies. U.S.A is using Pakistan as it’s fort in Asia. We both are brothers, should look for our people’s benefit. How many times has India invaded any Country ??? Not even a single time in last 10,000 years and it’s completely true.

    USA realises India as threat to it’s Monoply, otherwise why not grant Permanenet memeber seat In UNO SC to a country containing 16% of world’s population. Doesn’t it ahs rights to to take decison on securty matters of the world. HAs how many times India used a nuclear bomb.
    Then why impose a hyde act?? if there is any country who need to be imposed hyde act, it’s USA cause it dropped bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and never applogised.

    Talk about how World is democratic. We think even bigger. We have to get fare ratio in security matters of the world.

    Otherwise, it’s a threat to humanity

  30. Indian Tiger Says:

    Winning a war or loosing it is decided by accomplishment of OBJECTIVE by offender and denial of if by defender. Irrespective of size of military, wealth, Land Mass etc…etc. This is as simple as any thing.
    Pakistan tried to snatch KASHMIR in 1965 and 1999. Indian military denied it. Denial of pakistani objective was their goal. They did that successfully. And this means they got their goal and offender failed to get their goal. In all means India won the war.

    We(GOI and Indian Military) decided/set the goal to help ‘Mukti Wahini’ to liberate ‘East Pakistan’/'BANGLADESH’. A BANGLADESH is on world map. Job done mission accomplished. Indian military got their goal. And Pakistan failed to deny. Means we won the war. As simple as any thing.

    War and Peace……..Poor and rich……….Small and Big…….etc are natural. One who works hard will get former and Vice-Versa. This depends on person to person e.g- all most all major business tycoons in INDIA were very poor in past nothing to say about their present. And any body can find it anywhere. Doesnt matter it’s U.S.A or any country on worlds map.

  31. Ronnie Says:

    OH CMON GUYS….NOT ANOTHER INDIAN PAKISTANI’S VOCAL FIGHT MAN…SHEESH BOTH THE AIRCRATFS ARE GOOD..instead y can’t we look to be friends & work together rather than fight as to who is superior in the air.I think both the countries did an awesome job in manufacturing it.i think indian & pakistan are better off as friends than enemies..

  32. great99 Says:

    See Mr Ronnie, it’s not about about fight. Nobody wants a fight. But it is about trust. As MR. Vajpayee said

    Pakistaan not only broke LoC but Also Line Of Trust.

    And god dammned china betrayed back India in 62, ruthless war. It was india who signed PAnchsheel, recommend it’s name for Permanent member of UNO.

    India has overtrusted it’s enemies and we will not bear anymore.

  33. great99 Says:

    Since we can conclude that PAkiis stole the technology, they are natural idiots. They have only one aim, destroy india which they can’t do, thus they are Frustrated.

    Since India has developed AAD (Advanced Air Defence ), PAkis cannot get entry in the indian sky.Seems good to listen.

    As Mr.Indian Tiger presents, looks like JF-17 is of no use against India adn is imply hopeless. So we can conlude on Basis of Design, Avionics, Durability, Radar and Weapons. LCA has the edge over JF-17, no doubt about that.

    Have you peole heard about SURYA icbm please comment

  34. Ronnie Says:

    For how long will u keep looking at the past man…its time to move on…

  35. Yas Says:

    @Ronnie:
    And where is ure LCA……taking a dip in gunga….or getting cleaned by cow urine…oh yea i got it its being indegenised by rats and monkeys dump lol

  36. Yas Says:

    And to all those who deliberately refer to Pakistanis as pakis, implying as if they are any superior or breed. Listen up, this word is racially motivated and has been used as derogatory discriminatory term to refer to south east Asian people. That also includes Skinny Indians, Bangladeshis, Lankans. So you are using it against yourself. And yea, if a white man uses this word, one can swallow, but when skinny Indians use it: What re the trying to say?? Don’t they know who they are, Pkaistanis are way way better looking then skinny malnutrition Indians.

  37. true india Says:

    I think that pakis have got their brains psyched up with india. It is good that india was partitioned. India will never lose kashmir, poor pakis are beleiving that they will get kashmir. AFter the kargil misadventure , pakis are trembling in fear as india is arming up with the latest defence eqpt. Pakis are no doubt brainless in trying to challenge india’s might because now they cant match the military fire power india will possess within 2012. I always get a feeling about pakistan as sitting ducks. In the event of a war , the USA will suport india and their nuclear storages and establishment will be taken out in a second . Thereafter india has all the time to decide which paki city to destroy first and decimate them

  38. great99 Says:

    USA’s 26th president, Theodor Roosevelt said,

    ” the more you know and understand past, better you are able to nogotiate with future”

    SO you see MR.RONNIE why past is important is because we learn from it, do you get it

  39. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    Dear Indians

    It is sad, but true that there is no competition between LCA Tejas and JF-17 Thunder, reason is very much technical.Pakistan already have started the production of JF-17 on ful-scale and its second variant JF-17-2 will be tested in 2011/12 while on another hand LCA is failure, ins’t finalized yet,even after taking 25 years.Though on table (Wikipedia main source of Indians) its has pretty decent specs comparing to 3rd generation jet fighters however there are too many technical problems (mainly in design,air frame etc..) due to that reason that IAF have decided to induct only 2 squadrons of LCA which will stay at Tamil Naidu. Point to be noted early on IAF plan was to remove the existing MIG-21 with LCA. It can be inducted in 2008 ,however full-scale production won’t start until 2010.However if technical problems extends further delay is expected while some sources places date of its induction between 2012 and 2015.

    Now it seems that after spending 5,500 crore of Indian people tax money on white elephant, there is no future of LCA even in IAF,Data indicates that the LCA will not be able to meet Air Staff Requirements, Hindu times reports.

    “With empirical data indicating that indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, in its present form, will not be able to meet the Air Staff Requirements (ASRs), the Indian Air Force (IAF) has raised serious questions over the future of the aircraft’s long term induction into the squadron service”

    “IAF is unhappy with the Tejas’ performance,”

    Its pretty humorous to be noticed that only few problems are mentioned in “Hindu” report while bulks were intensionally hide by the author.

    What I am thinking may be I’m wrong…News is 100 % authentic, because for what reason India has announced a tender for the acquisition of 126 light fighters for its Air Force, worth 10 Billion dollors,if LCA is that much advanced?

    —-hindu.com/2007/12/01/stories/2007120156141600.htm
    —-geocities.com/spacetransport/aircraft-lca.html
    ————————————————————
    Aswell as,JF-17 thunder is concern as 17 clearly indicates , that it would be the leading fighter of PAF along side with f16. After induction of H-4,H-2,SD-10 and AMRAAM-C-7 missiles,JF-17 would be more lethal compared to F-16 block 52-A/B(Existing F-16s)…

  40. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    It is sad, but true that there is no competition between LCA Tejas and JF-17 Thunder, reason is very much technical.Pakistan already have started the production of JF-17 on ful-scale and its second variant JF-17-2 will be tested in 2011/12 while on another hand LCA is failure, ins’t finalized yet,even after taking 25 years.Though on table (Wikipedia main source of Indians) its has pretty decent specs comparing to 3rd generation jet fighters however there are too many technical problems (mainly in design,air frame etc..) due to that reason that IAF have decided to induct only 2 squadrons of LCA which will stay at Tamil Naidu. Point to be noted early on IAF plan was to remove the existing MIG-21 with LCA. It can be inducted in 2008 ,however full-scale production won’t start until 2010.However if technical problems extends further delay is expected while some sources places date of its induction between 2012 and 2015.

    Now it seems that after spending 5,500 crore of Indian people tax money on white elephant, there is no future of LCA even in IAF,Data indicates that the LCA will not be able to meet Air Staff Requirements, Hindu times reports.

    “With empirical data indicating that indigenous Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, in its present form, will not be able to meet the Air Staff Requirements (ASRs), the Indian Air Force (IAF) has raised serious questions over the future of the aircraft’s long term induction into the squadron service”

    “IAF is unhappy with the Tejas’ performance,”

    Its pretty humorous to be noticed that only few problems are mentioned in “Hindu” report while bulks were intensionally hide by the author.

    What I am thinking may be I’m wrong…News is 100 % authentic, because for what reason India has announced a tender for the acquisition of 126 light fighters for its Air Force, worth 10 Billion dollors,if LCA is that much advanced?

  41. Ali Khan Orakzai Says:

    I agree with Afridi Wrora!
    Seriously, think logically here. Lets say LCA Tejas was a cutting edge plane when it was envisaged in early 1980s. Then you add another DECADE, and maybe now that plane is not so cutting edge anymore, but maybe just leading edge. Then you add yet ANOTHER DECADE to the mix, and that two decades old technology is simply a good bulk technology. Regardless of how many MLUs you perform during its design cycle, its still a 30 year old basic design concept by the time its inducted in 2015. Can anyone deny that fact?
    Yes, its great that India made this huge list of advanced requirements to be laden on that LCA, but unfortunately, that greed of Indian planners burried the LCA under the heavy demands to the point where its too old to be able to perform to the levels that are needed today.
    So thats just basic common sense. Im not even talking about the actual results or whether the LCA actually achieved what was drawn on paper. The basic fact remains that LCA is a 30 year old concept, and atleast a 20 year old design! How could anyone call that a 4th or 5th generation plane? Yes, its going to be churned out of HALs production lines when the rest of the world is producing 5th generation aircrafts, but that doesnt mean it is one. Just like India was making Ambassadors and Marutis till 90s, it doesnt make them equivalent to a Honda or Toyota of 1990s.
    The basic premise of this LCA is a vestige of 1980. Its older than probably the average age of an Indian AF active duty pilot. That aint cutting edge!
    So get more exotic on the “requirements” and then fail at producing any results. Its called “hauwka”(greed). It gets you nowhere.
    Pakistan is practical and pragmatic. Our ego is not as big as the Indians(especially these days with the dreams of ‘India Rising’ slogans). We set achievable goals and show results.
    Fact: JF-17 design work started in 1999, it was already flying by 2005 and its already in production and inducted into PAF.

    Here’s a better comparison: a real life JF-17 with a paper LCA. Who do you think will win in a BVR fight? What about close-in combat? How about payload? How about maintenance?? Ok Ok, I’ll give you guys the maintenance, the LCA being on paper will require NO maintenance apart from keeping the paper plans looking neat and clean!

  42. great99 Says:

    Are you fussing around, JF-17 is your your frontline fighter and India’s frontline fighter is Su-30 MKI which is second best fighter plane in the world, Su-30 MKI is unmatched by the JF-17, therefore JF-17 is pretty hopless against Su-30 MKI in Engine, Radar, Payload and Avionics everything, simply no match.

    About LCA don’t bother, becuase those who try always succeed ( not talking about terrorisrism ).
    LCA has better avionics a resdesinged mainframe times better than your Mig 21 alluminium frame in JF-17 idiots. Talking about BVR, don’t bother because Missiles like Astra and python 4 & 5 won’t let you get near. Kaveri engine is even better than F-16’s or Grippen’s and with ISRAEL’s help it rectify all the problems. LCA got more speed than JF-17 which ofcourse Pakistan did nothing to make. By 2011, LCa will also have ISRALEI AESA radar , far superior than JF-17.Don’t bother son, you can’t match India.

    Why don’t you respect good things and accept your weekness and inability. There is always rooms for improvement. What the hell mistakes you find in LCA , production will start soon and it will get hell out of you.

    Don’t you realize you ofcourse can’t defeat India, we don’t wan’t war but you don’t understand it.

    It is better said in Hindi, ” Laton ke bhoot baton se nahi mante”

    Better luck next time and do come with more prepartion and facts and most importantly,

  43. Shaurya Says:

    Well well well….
    whats goin on here….
    LCA vs JF 17….

    ….awesome information you guy’s have provided…regarding LCA…i accept its a late 80’s design…but do you know that its been updated from time to time due to changing air force requirements and now it stand’s in between Mirage 2000-9 standards…now and not mig 21 as it was supposed to happen….JF 17 is still a crap design and was started in 1983 first with the designation of super 7…you may have started its induction but will you gimme any information regarding what kinda radar and avionics will it have….??

    gimme some solid link otherwise i wont even bother to reply back had been listening to this crap from a long time….

    JF 17 main armament is SD 10…ever heard of SD-10 taking a flight and accurately hitting a target…..

  44. Shaurya Says:

    while LCA astra has been tested 3 times and has hit the targets accurately….

    and just to provide you with some good information read through this article and most of your questions will be answered….and still if you compare LCA with Jf-17 then probably i will say that you guys are nothing more then a pea brain….

    http://www.idrw.org/2008/03/08/the_case_to_support_the_indigenous_lca_programme.html

  45. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @great99
    God,another ignorant, retarded boy, who is comparing LCA with JF-17 thunder,I’m afraid you’re dying the facts that the engine of LCA isn’t finalized yet,the same Kaveri engine(made by Gas Turbine research establishment Banglore) exploded twice during test and also flopped and
    collapsed when at high-altitude conditions were simulated at the research facility Aerodynamics Research, Moscow.DRDO sources said.

    This proved by the fact that present proto types of lca is flying with F-404 engines of General Electric which ADA bought 17 in numbers some years ago.

    Another,draw back in Lca design is its frame,which during flight raised abondance of questions.Hey I’ave a question for you,did you ever see LCA doing maneuvering?I’m sure ,you have?What did you find? Whats the turn rate of lca comparing to JF-17? see videos on youtube.

    Ghos,Kaveri engine is even better then the F-16 and Grippen’s ,now, I have serious doubt on your mental capabilty,I’m sure next time you’ll compare it with F-22 Raptor or F-35. If a the engine is not ready yet,how come thats better the F-16 or Grippen’s engines.

    LCA maximum speed is 1.6 mac with kaveri aswell of F-404 according to Wikipedia and FAS, while JF-17 flies at a speed of 1.8 mac with RD-93 engine,now the Chinese official news media confirmed that the engines use on JF-17 would be WS-13, a modified version of RD-33, bear in mind that J-10
    uses WS-10 engine which has more thrust and power comparing to your Su-mki engine and its WS-13 which means better to WS-10.search for facts on Wikipedia.

    Indeed in PAF present force ,its front line fighter along with F-16,however next year (2009), it will be replaced with J-10 which is more advanced in avionics etc.. comparing to the Su-27 flanker (so called,Su-mki). for instance compare the Radar of J-10 with Su-mki. J-10-AESA while on another hand Su-mki uses PESA radar (N011M).

    @Shaurya
    I’m afraid you didn’t make a search on internet regarding Jf-17,project was started in 1999 and its main frame design is based upon Mig-29 now Mig-21 as like of LCa,however there were fundamental changes have
    been made during the period. By the way your IAF is not willing to accept this white elephant, do you know that? I don’t think so..See the Hindu report /2007/12/01/stories/2007120156141600

    The JF-17 uses KLJ-10 radar which itself is a variant of J-10 AESA Radar, It fullfils PAF’s requirement sand thats why has been selected for initial batch of JF-17 thunder. for more information regarding “AVIONICS” visit JF-17 official website.

    presently Pakistan has different kind of BVR’s
    1-AIM-120-AMRAAM
    2-A-DARTER/T-DARTER/U-DARTER
    3-H-4 (Range 120 km)
    4-H-2 (Range 60 km)
    5-SD-10 (Based upon Russian Alamo-12) or perhaps R-77,there are news are China has reverse engineered R-77

    WVR missiles are
    1-AIM-9X-Side winder
    2-pL-9
    3-PL-8 (based upon Israelia Pytheon,actualy PRC version)

    @Ali Khan Orakzai
    Wrora well said,keep it up…

  46. great99 Says:

    @BILAL Afridi
    You are a double eyed MOron, A complete stupid and Mentaly retarded person. In which century are you living, 19th century ?????????
    Fool you are complete IDiot and mad as well. Try reading INDIADEFENCE.com and then you realize what’s the latest news, KAVERI engine has some faliures and now it is being rectified with the help ISRAEL, and yes it is more powerful than your RD-93 or F-16 engine , The link is there For you furthur imformation KAVErI can supercruise at any altitude and is only such palne to do so not Afterburning like yours

    yes regarding maneurvering you are supposed to be told that It is a LIGHTEST aircraft in the world , it can maintain speed of 0m\s and turn around quickly within no time. Try watching Indian Parade and then you realize what the hell are you speaking.

    Try searching on WIKIPAEDIA and if at all you can read ( litrate) you can clealy see that JF-17 project was begun by CHINA in 1986 ( with U.s.a ) but later latter withdrew and then PAKISTAAN just threw it’s money on the projecrt.

    Regarding the avionics better you are told that it’s fully redesigned A-class mainframe and it is lightweight
    Read it and Shut your ASS down !!!!

    Remeber 9 countries together prepared F-35 II idiot.

    Be updated to the knowlegde . Indian Defence minister said THAT LCA is F-16 class Aircraft and it outclassed F-16 in the joint exercises, try searching on the google.

    The AIM-9x missile as you claim , did not satisfied ISRaAEL so they build more lethal and deadly weapon PYTHON sereis which will be their in the LCA and other radar. REad it on WIKIPAEDIA.

    First know then talk.

    Now do not claim to be a MUSLIM or PATAHN as some paksitani forums do regularily, cause in india , more Msulims live than in your country and all of them are proud to be an INDIAN ( ex- A.P.J. Abdul KALAM ) cause MUSALMAN it self means IMAANDAR idiot and little prat.( i myself am a MUSLIM )

    Run away and never show yourself away.
    Some homework fo you:
    1. MAy i know contribution of pakistani engineers in JF-17 ?
    2.What do yo mean by drag ratio ? is not LCA’ 27:1 hihest in world ( which makes it even stealthy )
    Links:
    http://www.india-defence.com/reports/1306
    http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ india-lca-tejas-by-2010-but-foreign-help-sought-with-engine-01901
    http://indianaerospace.wordpress.com/2007/08/20/

  47. Ali Khan Orakzai Says:

    Im not sure why my last post was deleted? Maybe I was too blunt or maybe the admin does NOT like the facts?

    But still, LCA the paper tiger still is the ONLY plane in the world to get its MLU DURING the design process.

    Now that, my friends, is a world record.

    Paper LCA vs. real world JF-17.

    Who wins?

  48. Ali Khan Orakzai Says:

    @great99
    Whats all this hostility towards Bilal Afridi bro? Why are you so full of hate towards him, calling him names etc? Get a hold of yourself and realize you are getting angry at someone you dont even know, on the internet! Some would call THAT being crazy!
    Anyway, even if we were to accept your premise of LCA Paper Tejas” super-cruise ability, it is NOT the only plane in the world. Unlike the Paper Tejas and Paper Kaveri engine, F-22 Raptor actually DOES have super cruise ability. Its being inducted into USAF as we speak.
    Again, as I had said earlier in my post, you can call your paper Tejas anything you want, heck you can call it 6th generation, but as long as its only on paper, its going to be only PAPER 6th generation.
    Its funny that you guys have given your paper Tejas a couple of mid-life upgrades while its a twinkle of someone’s imagination on a computer screen in banglore. Tell me how that exactly works because the rest of the world is used to giving mid-life upgrades(MLU) to their airplanes when they have been in service atleast 20 years +.

    And you dont have to prove your credentials to Pakistanis by claiming you are a Musalman! Its not relevant to this topic. Hindus are just as smart as Muslims, so Im not sure why you feel the need to flash your religion at Pakistanis. Or is it that you are looked at suspiciously by your hindu compatriots in India and that you have to scream at the top of your lungs that you LOVE India and that you are just as patriotic as them? Maybe you need to look at that need a bit closer?
    And when it comes to Pathans, only NON-Pukhtuns call us Pathans. We are Pukhtun. Pathan is a angrez perversion of our ethnicity. Pukhtuns speak Pukhto. We believe in Pukhtunwali. But again, what does that have to do with this forum and the discussion at hand?

    Oh yeah, so how did Arjun work out for you guys? I believe it was the world’s most modern main battlefield tank, right?

  49. Fantom Says:

    Dear Bilal Bhai

    I solute you comrade for your comprehensive assissment regarding LCA and also clearing of certain enigmatic points regarding jf-17.However, it would be great if you discuss both planes in detail.Bhai can you give us some information on jf-17/A, which you mentioned in your previous post.Bhai are you the same bilal ,who appears at F-16.net/pakdefence/abytheliberal etc.. sites.Bhai I am Asim from UOP,remember?

    great99
    Hey you big mouth,pig eating scion,learn some respect, before opening your ass like mouth,should be in mind,that to whom you talking to, he is a defence analyst and an elder person.I didn’t find a single aggressive word from bhai side,so be careful next time. It’s purely an aerospace forum,don’t deviate the topic with fish market abusive remarks. You should better be answered to the raised questions. You’re frustration is visible from your remarks, so don’t be abusive and respect others.

    Orakzai
    Bhai good shot…wheres you from…

  50. Phantom Says:

    Dear Bilal Bhai

    I solute you comrade for your comprehensive assessment regarding LCA and also clearing of certain enigmatic points regarding jf-17.However, it would be great if you discuss both planes in details,present article isn’t worthwhile and also can’t be considered neutral.Bhai can you give us some information on jf-17/A, which you mentioned in your previous post.Bhai are you the same bilal ,who appears at F-16.net/pakdefence/abytheliberal etc.. sites.Bhai I am Asim from UOP,remember?

    great99
    ***********, he is a defense analyst and an elder person.I didn’t find a single aggressive word from bhai side,so be careful next time. It’s purely an aerospace forum,don’t deviate the topic with fish market abusive remarks. You should better be answered to the raised questions. You’re frustration is visible from your remarks, so don’t be abusive and respect others.

    Orakzai
    Bhai good shot…wheres you from…

  51. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @great99
    I’m afraid ,you’re trying to turn this debate into political address of BJP,so, i request you to be careful next time,and strictly stick to the topic, which is “LCA-tejas vs JF-17 thunder”instead of bubbling or bragging..

    I think, you didn’t read what I said in my previous post, that ADA has abandoned usage of indigenous engine for lca, thats why now they are using F-404 engines of General Electric and planning for acquiring at least up to 35 engines in next three years. for more information regardind F-404 engine on Lca make some decent research.

    AIM-9X, Israel not satisfied with its result,Pathetic? Do you have any idea about AMRAAM as well AIM-9x killing rate? I don’t think so? AIM-120-AMRAAM has proved itself in air warfare and produced 100 percent killing result and in Iraq wars AIM-9x also proved itself. So whats so special, I guess you’re not aware of the fact that Python missile isn’t based upon Israeli technology but produced with foreign collaboration.

    By the way you didn’t answer to my raised questions?
    I have another question for you,which radar Lca is using these days?

  52. great99 Says:

    @ Ali Khan Orakzai
    Don’t try to be a diplomat. You talk about raised question.

    I said LCA is the ony aircraft with supercruise ability at all the ALTITUDE. So do a bit research about F-22 raptor (U.S.A is head of all in technology, so why don’t you appreciate LCA )

    What the you talk about raised question, question is raised on you :

    What is contribution of Pakistani scientists in JF-17 ???

    @FANTOM or PHANTOM
    see yo ! I have no hostility towards anybody, nobody likes war , just if anybody like FANTOM & BILAL AFRIDI (sccumbag ) tries to act smart and show their greatness on others it makes me fell responsible to his/her true face. A question is raised to you and yes, read the whole forum before opening your mouth and see which IDIOT strarted the hell and abusing !!!!!!!!!

    India is a democratic country , everybody is equal in status you must know before speaking. See ex. of MR.KALAM, whole country loves him as much as A hindu or a msulim, so no point in support for particular religion. How is your country doing these days. Congtrats for a step towards democracy.

    @BILAL AFRIDI
    Update your G.K.!!!!!!!!!! Senior IAF officer said that KAVERI engine is 93% complete and those american engines will be used until KAVERI production doesn’t starts. READ MY PROVIDED LINKS FIRST!!!!!!!!!

    Bloody hell !!! I am shoutiing fro # days , LCA will have AESA RADAR TECHNOLOGY !!! get it on WIKIPEDIA !!!

    About, Python read it on WIKIPEDIA.

    Next time read more, than open your mouth, understood.

    ( Ah ! you certainly are not fond of reading INDIAN newspaper so how would you know what’s going on )

    By the way , LCA prototypes are tested , so no point on paper. Stop shountin “PAPER”, one day every techything was on paper ( before prepared )

    By the way, never heard of 6th gen aircraft, latest heard of 5th gen craft, provide more imformation.

    Why don’t you people accept and admit it. What makes you so stubborn.Ah! don’t worry, we won’t attack you, we follow no first strike policy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  53. great99 Says:

    @ Ali Khan Orakzai
    Don’t try to be a diplomat. You talk about raised question.

    I said LCA is the ony aircraft with supercruise ability at all the ALTITUDE. So do a bit research about F-22 raptor (U.S.A is head of all in technology, so why don’t you appreciate LCA )

    What the you talk about raised question, question is raised on you :

    What is contribution of Pakistani scientists in JF-17 ???

    @FANTOM or PHANTOM
    see yo ! I have no hostility towards anybody, nobody likes war , just if anybody like FANTOM & BILAL AFRIDI (sccumbag ) tries to act smart and show their greatness on others it makes me fell responsible to his/her true face. A question is raised to you and yes, read the whole forum before opening your mouth and see which IDIOT strarted the hell and abusing !!!!!!!!!

    India is a democratic country , everybody is equal in status you must know before speaking. See ex. of MR.KALAM, whole country loves him as much as A hindu or a msulim, so no point in support for particular religion. How is your country doing these days. Congtrats for a step towards democracy.

    @BILAL AFRIDI
    Update your G.K.!!!!!!!!!! Senior IAF officer said that KAVERI engine is 93% complete and those american engines will be used until KAVERI production doesn’t starts. READ MY PROVIDED LINKS FIRST!!!!!!!!!

    Bloody hell !!! I am shoutiing fro # days , LCA will have AESA RADAR TECHNOLOGY !!! get it on WIKIPEDIA !!!

    About, Python read it on WIKIPEDIA.

    Next time read more, than open your mouth, understood.

    ( Ah ! you certainly are not fond of reading INDIAN newspaper so how would you know what’s going on )

    By the way , LCA prototypes are tested , so no point on paper. Stop shountin “PAPER”, one day every techything was on paper ( before prepared )

    By the way, never heard of 6th gen aircraft, latest heard of 5th gen craft, provide more imformation.

    Why don’t you people accept and admit it. What makes you so stubborn.Ah! don’t worry, we won’t attack you, we follow no first strike policy!!!!!!!!!

  54. pshamim Says:

    The most unfortunate thing is that when an informal thread is stated, it turns into a pissing contest between Indians and Pakistani stalwarts.

    Most of the posts above are high on emotion and hatred and low on knowledge. Arguments for the argument sake are rampant.

    Please achieve more knowledge about these aircrafts before arguing. It should be easy given that the JF-17 are now in service and LCA has reams of information on net.

    Stop the childish behavior.

  55. great99 Says:

    @pshamim

    Read the forum first. LCA is not on reams of papersand net, protoypes have been tested and it has succefully completed first 800 flights. update your G.K.

    http://www.india-defence.com

  56. Shaurya Says:

    sorry guys a bit late…for this discussion….
    @gREAT 99….yOURE nOT aLONE here bROTHER…though my knowledge is limited…but i am sure its better than some people…you know who i mean….

    @Bilal afridi…

    1-AIM-120-AMRAAM
    2-A-DARTER/T-DARTER/U-DARTER
    3-H-4 (Range 120 km)
    4-H-2 (Range 60 km)
    5-SD-10 (Based upon Russian Alamo-12) or perhaps R-77,there are news are China has reverse engineered R-77

    awesome report man…i am terrified…can you give me one credible source where it is said that Pakistan even have BVR’s…and when have american’s sell AIM 120 AMRAAM…I dont know about H-4 OR h-2…BUT YEAP SD-10 has never been tested..if you dont know…

    and nothing against nationality but seriously you people seriously have to look for some credible resources than goin out for some JF 17 SITe hypothetically made by some over emphasized nationalist….

  57. Shaurya Says:

    and yeah sorry forgot to add….

    if pakistan even gets Aim 120 Amraam…due to the order made earlier of 500 AMraam’S do check and tell me which version is pakistan getting….but the biggest question is of US congress whether they will give AMRAAM’s C-5 to pakistan…in the upgradation package…

    AND probably you will get C-5 afterwards when pakistan is going to lick american’s feet for it….

    and third by the time pakistan gets his hands on AMRAAM 120 C-5

    India will have have R -77M1 which has a range of 175 Kms…and novator KS-172…RANGE OF 400 KMS…to kill your erieye AEW’s….

  58. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @Shaurya

    1-AIM-120-AMRAAM
    Don’t mind it dear, you lack up to date information.Here is the link for AMRAAM. Pakistan already have received first batch of F-16’s (24+2) along with weapon systems.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-120_AMRAAM
    http://india-defence.com/reports-3432

    2-A-DARTER/T-DARTER/U-DARTER
    There should be no doubt in mind that early on Pakistan had A-darter and T-darter in usage and U-darter was seen in Pakistani stall at Ideas 2004. After conduction of H-4 and H-2 missile tests in 2004 officials said that H-4 is based upon T-darter and H-2 on S-darter.So, its very much logical that If a country develops a certain object from certain thing, that simply means that she must bears that thing in stocks.
    http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/text/missiles/aam.html

    3-H-4 (Range 120 km)
    4-H-2 (Range 60 km)
    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/367308.cms

    5-SD-10 (PL-12)
    “PL-12 development officially began in 1997 and took seven years to complete. During a fire test carried out on 16 August 2005, a total of eleven missiles were fired, all hitting their targets. The first multi-target fire test was also carried out successfully in late 2005”
    Do you have any idea what has happened to SD-10?than now this, it is in use, can be seen on J-10 fighters. See videos on youtube.
    http://sinodefence.com/airforce/weapon/pl12.asp
    http://cnair.top81.cn/missile.htm

    “India will have R -77M1 which has a range of 175 Kms…and novator KS-172…RANGE OF 400 KMS

    Shaurya, though I never came across regarding your mentioned missile, instead of R-27T/TE1 which are LRAAM, I don’t understand if India already stockpiled R-27T etc…whats the reason for induction of R-77M1 etc..I have a question, whats the affective range of your mentioned missle (NEZ) and what about its life duration. By the way its pretty much easy to escape from long range AAM’s.Asked any defence expert.

    @great99
    What, have I asked you? That which radar Lca is using these days? I’m not talking about futures plans. If you asked me regarding future plans, you’ll see some day that JF-17 will be included among 5th generation fighters.
    Its for you, “India’s electronics industry has been unable to build a radar system for the new jet”

    http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3503

    My dear,I don’t know where did you get these information that LCA done 800 flying hours with Kaveri engine,bear in mind that with a GE 404 engine Lca has done 800-plus hours of flight-testing.

    http://www.thehindu.com/2008/03/09/stories/2008030958701000.htm

    @Fontom/Phantom
    Yes, I’m the same Bilal of F.16.net, yes I remember you junior, Welcome in here

  59. Indian Says:

    Guys , why are u replying to the pakis ????

    the bottomline is JF-17 is a Chinese plane.

    Tejas is an Indian plane.

    Invite the Chinese to debate on LCA Vs JF, why on earth the Pakis are so desparate to prove non-existing lethality of the KF-17 , I don’t know.

    Pakis, It is not India but the whole world considers JF-17 as a 3rd generation plane (incuding the manufacturer China), so please stop bull-shitting and go and search internet (if u have in ur country) which plane is better.

    And Indians, stop wasting ur time giving moral lesions to Pakis, we have lot of work to do……..

  60. great99 Says:

    @BILAL AFRIDI
    when did I say LCA completed *800 hours with KAVERI. I said it did completed as a proof that it was on paper. Try to understand first , don’t take out meanings of your own.

    NO joking around, JF-17 a 5th gen aircraft ?????? Fisrt make it 4.5 Gen and then a 5thgen.

    REad on WIKIPEDIA about radar and all stuff, do search and you get it.

    one question still remains,what is the role pakistani engineers in all these stuffs?????

    BY the way don’t talk about indian electronic industries , they that built it for Su-30MKI (read on wikipedia ) which has been modified by INDIA. one more question, can pakistan match india’s in electronics.

    Well one thing is certainly there, INDIAN media faults and abilities, not like PAKISTANI media covering faults of country?????????? (MR. KALAM said the INDIAN part )

  61. Shaurya Says:

    @bilal afridi….true i am not that much into defense and still amateur…but it is with conversation’s that you learn…

    your’e getting F-16’s true i agree…but amraam packages i am still not sure….and in the articles it is said that pakistan has ordered 500 missiles…it doesn’t say about acquiring it….

  62. Shaurya Says:

    *i mean acquired by pakistan…*

  63. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @great99
    My dear ,my intension was to show you that, the Kaveri engine project has been failed and never ever been used on lca and lca done 800-plus hours of flight-testing, with GE 404 engine. So, question rises again that how can an incomplete engine is powerful comparing to RD-93/WS-13.Be logical my little brother, we should sincerely discuss things beyond eye glass of nationalism and patriotism.

    I am afraid, you didn’t get the right meaning of my sentence read it again, I was giving an example,thats it…and one more thing, generation is based upon time period, in which the thing or jet has been produced not on Avionics etc..Check it on Wikipedia

    My dear, My dear, you still didn’t answer the question, present radar on LCA.?Please.

    I am not saying anything regarding Indian electronics but its your India.defence.com ,who says “India’s electronics industry has been unable to build a radar system for the new jet(LCA-Tejas)”…Do you know, what that statement tend to suggest? India wasn’t the inventor of Su-Mki avionics etc..and radar on Su-mki was a phased array radar,bought from Israel. So?

    http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3503

    dear junior brother, give logical answers with proves, instead of waisting yours as well mine time.

    I’m a peace loving man,shown by my work.

  64. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @Shaurya
    My little brother, I’m totally agree with you that man doesn’t learn from mother womb, but it is with conversation with others we learn.
    I’m in this field from last 5 years and I write articles in Pakistan local news papers.for more information see,Daily Mushariq….
    As well as AMRAAM is concern, due to Indian objection, Americans delivered missile secretly and Pakistan also intensionally didn’t display those missiles but the prove that clears the atmosphere is that one can easily see AIM-9x missiles on delivered F-16s, if they have delivered AIM-9x sidewinder that obvious they may have also delivered AMRAAM’s.Another thing that make confusion is that, that in agreement between Lockheed martin and PAF, they had mentioned that delivery date of F-16s is 2009 to 2012 while on another hand, we have solid proof that Americans has delivered more than 25 jets. So Americans are playing double game.

  65. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @Shaurya
    Sorry I forget to mention this, according to Lockheed martin’s contract, delivery date of AMRAAM’s is 2008. Contract agreement is accessible on Internet.

  66. great99 Says:

    @BILAL AFRIDI
    you might like to read about improvements done by INDIA on Su-30 to make it Su-30 MKI on WIKIPEDIA and other sources. Read it carefully !!!!!!!

    Yes my dear , I respect your job and your qualification, congraqtulations on that, but you msut realize that KAVERI is not a faliure. It failed in altitude tests which is being worked upon by ISRAELI collaboration, you must accept that. We can say it it is better because it says and promises, have you ever seen engine of any large aircraft !!!!
    Just as a company can say it will make a tallest building in world and and after some problems it does it . During problems you shall not say it is a faliure, isn’t it . In 2005 U.S.A said it will make world’s best fighter plane , so it is wrong to say that it is on paper and it is a faliure in 2005, but now you can’t say that because it is made (JSF or F-35 lightening II ). So you understand !!!!!!!

    Yes which radar does JSF uses these days. Can you make it or tell the working. Certainly not!!!!! Some imformation are also top secret and yes no aircraft can be made or tested without a RADAR don’t you agree.

    Americans are in yhis feild from a very long time while we have milk teehs in the area. Try to appreciate things insted of criticism. You must remember Madam CURIE who got succes after 1000 faliures or so( dosn’t means kaveri is FALIURE) . Kaveri jsut failed in couple of tests and you say it is a faliure, you must regret for that. Atleast we are trying to reduce dependency.

    Don’t get proud of F-16’s because U.S.A plans to retire them. Selling you a retired aircraft, that’s very odd in saying.

    I have read many Pakistani forums and they call Arjun MBT a faliure, Brahmos, Nag Anti TAnk and even Agni IV and AAD a faliure. This not jusified . How can you call it a faliure ?? What is the criteria.

    In india we also have many defence analyst , more than your country, i read there views and that’ s where i get inpiration. So you are not alone in the bussiness. In some pakistani forums,( all in fact ) they always refer INDIA as FOE or ARCh ENEMY which i get annoyed. IS that jsuified ???
    Did we attack PAKSITANN anytime, anywhere ?? PLease tell me the reason you refer as enemy ?? I would like to know.
    We call it DEFENCE not OFFENCE forces, remember !!!!

  67. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @great99
    Yes, Indian has indeed done a lot of modification in flanker-C (Su-30 MKI) fighter jets. It has 4.5 generation avionics etc…Its comparable to China’s J-10 in some aspects ,however as well as Radar and engine is concern, J-10 has edge over Su-mki. Sukhoi uses Pesa radar while on another hand ,J-10 uses AESA radars.

    You know, why people call Kaveri engine a failure, reason is very much optimistic? after taking more than two decades and spending more than 1000 crore , it is still not operational…So, its pretty much early to say something regarding Kaveri that whether its powerful or not.

    I agree with you that without radar plane can’t be completed. I’m sure you may have these informations that LCA-Tejas uses Pulse dopler radar, however its origin is not known?if you have any information let me know. Recently HAL (Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd) signed an agreement with IAI (Israel Aerospace Industries),who will provide a radar system for India’s new Light Combat Aircraft fighter jet ‘Tejas…its actually an AESA RADAR. do you know the reason why India has decided to equip the LCA with AESA radar?
    its funny but a blind truth, JF-17 thunder uses KLJ-10 radar which is a variant of J-10 AESA Radar. So terms of Radar usage on both fighters JF-17 thunder has a clear edge on LCA which uses Pulse dopler Radars.

    You have asked too many irrelevant questions at once which I can’t answer it right now,however one thing, I would certainly love to mention in here is that both India and Pakistan have violated each other boundaries many times.

  68. Ali Khan Orakzai Says:

    @great99
    you ask where India attacked Pakistan FIRST, well my friend, tell me what you call India in Pakistan’s civil war of 1971? What was that? India openly planned, armed and attacked East Pakistan with naked aggression and you still wonder where India attacked Pakistan first? Please.

    What about 1965 when India attacked pakistan on the INTERNATIONAL BORDER when the conflict was only in Kashmir that is a disputed territory???

  69. great99 Says:

    @ Ali Khan Orakazi & Bilal Afridi

    You have been foolled dear brother , you have been kept in pitch darkness. You have been taught wrong. 1971 conflict began when several armed mercenaries entered the indian side and there was infiltration noticed by some shephered and confirmed by agencies. If you don’t beleive , read it on wikipedia or any neutral site or Encarta encyclopedia, since they are neutral , they won’t favour any country but tell the truth.

    1965 war was also started by pakistan , seeing an advantage as india forces were weakened in the 1961 Chinese war. Why will india attack insted of strenthening it’s forces, tell me. You amy read on wikipedia or encarta. India has never invaded any country in last 10,000 years, pakistan or any other country ( FORBES magazine , 2001 ).

    There is no reason for india to attack any country including your, it was your political instability, milliatry coups and contitutional faliures that led to rise of powers of milliatry in Pakistan. You read it on wikipedia don’t you agree bilal afridi ???????

    One question please, what is role of pakistani engineers in all the above discussed stuffs ??????

  70. great99 Says:

    @ BILAL AFRIDI
    you may wonder but Su-30 MKI has been called as world’s best jet fighter in WIKIPEDIA after F-22 Raptor. Read it on wikipedia.

    Sorry but as i know AESA radars are the best not its any copied version or any subset of it , so know show proofs that your radar is better than AESA…….

  71. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @great99
    I don’t want to turn a purely military topic into a political discussion, so its better, we stick to the topic, instead of criticizing each other countries. It is not a right way.

    You asked, what is the role of Pakistani engineers in JF-17 thunder? Though I can give you answer with proves, however, its better you listen on your ears, that what role Pakistan made in development of JF-17 thunder.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Rcf2PKkxc

    As well as Su-30 MKI world’s best jet fighter in WIKIPEDIA after F-22 is concern, let me make it very interesting for you that there too many jet fighters which are better then su-mki, in terms of radar,engine,avionics etc…for instance ,Su-30-MKK,Su-30-MK2,J-10 of China, Malaysian royal air force (Su-30-MKM which also uses same components which is used by India Su-mki)..I just counted few of them, there are more than dozens which are in terms better than Indian mki, I didn’t mention American as well as European intensionally reason is…You know very well..After hearing this you would certainly think how can Chinese variants are better than Indian mki, so I’m inviting you to just compare radars of these plane with your Su-mki which uses Pesa while Chinese jets use AESA radars and modern avionics.

    Please make a decent research for PESA VS AESA radars on net.

    Your question regarding JF-17 radar is concern, compare pulse doppler radar of Lca with AESA of JF-17 (KJL-10 a variant of J-10s radar).
    Do you know that in terms of radar performance KJL-10 is even better to Su-30-Mki PESA (N011M BARS pulse Doppler passive array radar), and thats the reason that India air force is acquiring AESA radars from Israel for its fighter jets.

  72. great99 Says:

    one thing you must make sure thatRadar wise and other wise JF-17 stands nowhere against Su-30 MKI which has complete egdeover JF-17.Somewhere on net i read that Su-30 MKI has a lot more range than JF-17, so that’s why we are comparing your mainrole fighter and our light combat fighter ( what a comparision , reminds me of handicap match in WWE ).

    So you wanna say that WIKIPEDIA is wrong, whole world is wrong and only you are correct, other vast sources are lying saying Su-30 MKI is second best fighter,. Ask a question yourself, whom are you fooling, me , world, young people or children of your counrty or YOURSELF . I still beleive WIKIPEDIA no you. You amy ahve done research and PhD. on htese things but let me tell you any one ( not non humans and PAKISTANI ) will beleive wikipedia.

    Ah regarding your video, please give in written because I have limited data plan, VIDEOS are heavy for data, but please tell something digestible, don’t tell copied or licencing things ( like BABUR Cruise missile ). Please sir.

    Regarding J-10 (china) a better comaprision is vs. PAK-FA or the joint aircraft being built as INDIAN russian joint venture ( we don’t call it a faiure like you people call LCA , J-10 is still not inducted, we don’t call it on papers ).

    Do a fare bit of comparision. few questions (final versions of both )
    1. Since both have same radar , balanced ?
    2. What about airframe(yours is MiG-21 based alluminium one ) ??
    3 Which is better AIM-9x or Python 4, 5 ??
    4.engine wise , which will be better ( consider final versions )??????
    5.Speed wise, supercruising is better or afterburning ??
    6.Whose fly-by-wire system is more advanced ???
    7. What about ASTRA AAM ?????
    8.What about dogfighting?
    9>what about loadout (LCA designed to carry all SU-30’s weapons ) ????
    10.(IS it still needed??)

    Commander, (your nickname , you like it? ) one advice take holidays on BAHAMA beach refresh you mind, be cooool…………………………..

  73. great99 Says:

    By the way, some lines from WIKIPEDIA along with link:
    “The Su-30MKI version is a development of the Su-27 series. Though a variant of Su-30, the Su-30 MKI is more advanced than the basic Su-30 or the Chinese Su-30 MKK aircraft. Its avionics, aerodynamic features and components are similar to the Su-35.[3] This variant has significant upgrades on it from the basic Su-30 MK version. The aircraft was jointly designed by Russia’s Sukhoi and India’s HAL.”

    “The N011-M Bars is the most powerful Russian passive phased array Radar (PESA) radar on any exported fighter aircraft. The passive phased array Radar Irbis-E (Snow Leopard)[6][7][8]will make its debut by 2010, when the first totally-built Su-30MKI will roll out from HAL Nasik.”

    “The Su-30 MKI has a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 8000 km. The Su-30MK and Su-30MK-1 have a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 5200 km (35% less than MKI variant).”

    ‘The integrated aerodynamic configuration, combined with the thrust vectoring control ability, results in unprecedented maneuverability and unique takeoff and landing characteristics. Equipped with a digital fly-by-wire system, the Su-30MK is able to perform some very advanced maneuvers. They include the well-known Pugachev’s Cobra and the Bell. While performing a somersault maneuver the aircraft makes 360-degree turn in the pitch plane without any loss of altitude. In the Controlled Flat Spin maneuver the aircraft performs several full turns in the horizontal plane, with zero forward speed, virtually on the spot.”

    “Indian contribution

    Su-30MKI is fitted with several Indian designed and manufactured avionic items. Several critical items were developed by DRDO under a project code named “Vetrivel” (Spear of Victory Vel in Tamil) in close collaboration with the PSUs and the IAF. These included the mission computer, display processor and radar computer. Other systems supplied by the DRDO and HAL include the INCOM frequency hopping, jam resistant radio set, radar altimeters, IFF units, as well as dial-pointer instrumentation for the cockpit, intended as a backup for the digital Liquid crystal displays.

    Some of the components developed by Indian agencies were:
    Mission Computer Display Processor-MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment DARE): The 32-bit mission computer performs mission-oriented computations, flight management, reconfiguration-cum-redundancy management and in-flight systems self-tests. In compliance with MIL-STD-1521 and 2167A standards, Ada language was adopted for the mission computer’s software.
    Radar Computer – RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
    Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module
    IFF-1410A – Identification Friend or Foe
    Integrated communication suite
    Radar altimeter

    Other critical items from the Indian side, included test instrumentation and support equipment for the Sukhoi, which India now hopes to provide to other Sukhoi customers such as Malaysia.

    Furthermore, Indian pilots and technical personnel played a vital role in optimizing the Sukhoi-30 MKI’s ergonomics as well as information displays. Given the high level of user involvement, and local aeronautical expertise built up via the LCA program, it can be reasonably expected that Indian Su-30 MKI’s will continue to evolve further.”

    link :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30MKI

  74. great99 Says:

    RegarRegarding LCA:
    “The DRDO currently hopes to have the Kaveri engine ready for use on the Tejas by 2009-10.”
    Link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas

  75. great99 Says:

    Sorry for the Induction part of J-10, it has been inducted but radar has not been finalized yet, so can we call it a faliure . No! .Similarily you can’t call LCA a faliure!!!!!

  76. Ali Khan Orakzai Says:

    Could someone please tell great99 that Wikipedia is an OPEN SOURCE information portal and ANYONE can edit information on there?

    He seems to think that Wikipedia is some sort of holy book on truth! You need to learn how wikipedia works before you start relying on it overtly!

  77. great99 Says:

    @ALI KHAn ORKAZI or whatever,

    Not talking about holy book, but you msut know the imformation put is very accurate and your IP gets stored and the imformation put is veified also. So if say thatJF-17 is the best aircraft and write in that , it simply will be removed, and you also have to give the sources of your data which is also verified . In short wikipedia is more reliable than you or your DEFENCE ANALYST. MR.Bilal. Any msichevious activity can also be removed precisely.
    Do you beleive encarta ?

    One challenge , point out and show ten mistakes is Wikpedia and then I blindly beleive whatever you say (joking, there is no chance )!!!!!!!!!!

  78. Rizwan Says:

    Mr. Bilal Afridi –

    I am from Pakistan and working in the U.S. I have keen interest in our armed forces and I want to ask few questions and discuss few things with you about PAF’s recent procurement, which you have stated here.
    So if you don’t mind, can you please provide me with your e-mail address. You can send it at rizhussain44@hotmail.com.

    But if you don’t like to be contacted other than on a public forum i will understand that.

    Regards,
    Rizwan.
    Rizwan.

  79. human Says:

    i think u should check PAF site and Wikipedia and PDF. the JF-17 is equal to LCA. it have less RCS than LCA.

  80. says Says:

    @great99
    what s your obsession with “wikipedia”, cant you find any source other than wiki and indian domains, and besides wiki is mostly dominated by indian editors. And its beter to admit that you have lost an argument than keep on defending your losing one, this will make people laugh more at you. By the way can any person here provide me a link to the video of a missile ( i guess agny not sure) which failed after launch. TC

  81. BILAL AFRIDI Says:

    @great99
    You talked about comparison and made a decent effort,however you lake some information,so I’m going to add in your list.

    1. Since both have same radar , balanced ?
    Ans:Both, haven’t same radars, Hal Tejas uses pulse doppler radar while Jf-17 uses KLJ-7(10) radar which is a variant of J-10 AESA radar.

    2. What about airframe(yours is MiG-21 based alluminium one ) ??
    Ans:Lca uses MiG-21 jets airframe, asked any credible Indian source while Jf-17 is based upon MiG-33 single engine frame which was rejected by Russian Air Force.

    3 Which is better AIM-9x or Python 4, 5 ??
    Ans:AIM-9x produced 100% kill results in Iraq wars while Python?Give me proof that it even has killed a single aircraft instead of moving targets during testing.
    4.engine wise , which will be better ( consider final versions )??????
    Ans: Are you talking about Kaveri? compare is Lca maximum speed, 1.6 mach,Thrust 82 kn, Jf-17: 1.8 mach, 84 kn thrust.

    5.Speed wise, supercruising is better or afterburning ??
    Ans: First of all read wikipedia articles on Kaveri and by the would you like to tell me what is supercruising? God…

    6.Whose fly-by-wire system is more advanced ???
    Ans: will that aspect make your plane agile?Mind it all modern planes have fly-by-wire system that isn’t mean if other planes articles on wikipedia lakes this information that doesn’t mean they haven’t the capability.

    7. What about ASTRA AAM ?????
    Ans:I don’t know if ASTRA is that much advanced why do IAF aquiring Pytheon-4/5?

    8.What about dogfighting?
    Ans:Search internet you will find lot of data containing information that lca air frame has lot of draw backs and by the way show me a single video where lca had been showed doing maneuvering and what about its turn rate with Jf-17?

    9>what about loadout (LCA designed to carry all SU-30’s weapons ) ????
    Ans:Read wikipedia what kind of weapon Jf-17 can carry.
    10.(IS it still needed??)
    Ans: I’m afraid.right now, “No”.

  82. great99 Says:

    @ BILAL
    mr. afridi , looks like you have made some very decent msitakes in your comparisions, or check your power of your specks, it may be the problem or better open your eyes start reading INTERNET, i am afraid your expertize fails , an expert never tells lies or closes his eyes and writes, here are some mistakes with question numbers :
    1. Looks like you don’t have good G.K, india is importing AESA Radar form ISRAEL , and don’t talk variants, it looks too childish.
    2.Don’t you read read wikipedia, Indian airframe is fully redeisgned fibre one, far more advanced than yours.(read about yours in wikipedia, if you don’t beleive)
    3.Is it always neccesary launch few missiles on your head to prove it’s lethalness, it has been inducted after tests and it’s clearly written on wiki that israel made python 5 cause they were not satisfied with AIM-9 version
    4.Is maximum speed indicator of better engine ??
    Maximum of LCA with U.S.A’s engine is 1.6 mach not of KAVERI engine, please .
    5.Sorry ! A expert doesn’t knows what is supercuising, it is cruising into supersonic speed without using afterburners, not in burtsts far more advanced than afterburning!
    6> ASTRA is a BVR AAM while puthon is compltetly diffrent thing.
    7. you mean a plane with thrust is to weight ratio 1 and which is lightest aircraft is nothing in dogfighting, wovyy, that’s more than enough, i ahve seen our parade’s on republic day and see handsome manuervering of LCA (even turning at 0 m/s )

    We all love our country, you love your’s , i love mine. Your country is proud of you, for what you do but telling lies brings disgrace to your country.

    Whom are you feeling, me , your followers who trust you blimdly or YOURSELF !!!!

  83. indian Says:

    I feel LCA will be fully operational by the Year 2012 and may remain as one of the best 4.5 Generation fighter of all times. Kaveri Engine is expected to have Trust on 86kn. On teh thrust of 82Kn in LCA it will be great for manuervering. Our Mig -21 Bison modified version will do to defeat JF-17. Our Pak is so confident that they got better defense technology than us let them fought a war with us. Let see who wins. Maybe India require 2 days to take full control of Pak.

  84. Jackass Says:

    Hi Bilal & great99…

    wonder why both of you got so sentimantal about this discussion? This was just supposed to be a tech comparison.
    And Indian.. please lets be rational. We will not be able to take full control of Pak in 2 days!! for god’s sake.
    anyway pretty much all major cities from both sides will be nuked into oblivion by then, so the whole exercise would be pretty pointless right?
    Great99 -
    You should probably concede to the point about this being an unfair comparison – between an inducted plane and one under development.
    Realistically, induction for Tejas will happen by 2012-2015(incorporating Kaaveri if all goes well). The next four to 6 years will give Pakistan a window to get a more sophisticated fighter from China or go for some upgrades in the new J17s being manufactured at that time (the likely scenario).
    So the real comparison can be done only post evaluating those upgrades.

    And Bilal – If those upgrades dont happen, then Tejas is miles ahead. You have to concede that..

    Cheers!

  85. Indian Says:

    Mr. Jackass
    You are a real ass hole pretending as peace maker. I am quite sure in current stage, a full fledged war on pakistan takes 2 days to make them surrender to india. The IAF says just 24 hours required to bring down pakis.
    India never started a war against pakis. Its they who wants to strike against india. If they try once again liek in 1999 or 1965 they will go back to 1950 era. JF-17 is a chineese scrap which is like china electronic watch we can buy in china markets anywhere. They say it as cheap and best but rest of the world say “cheap and dumps”

  86. winged Stallion Says:

    Hello All, I am amazed by the capacity of Pakistan in its fighter AC building capability, it has outgunned countries which are in field of hitech fighter AC development,Since past 5 decades. Do you have any doubts on the capabilities of Pakistani engineers only because they are still unable build a passenger car on their own? and with no reputed technological institutes?.They are still able to develop “hitech” capabilities, whether it is in the field of Missiles or Fighter air Craft, with help of different hitech countries in the field like DPRK,Iran,China,Sudan.Donot be amazed, even these countries are able of producing hitech armaments, they are even able to take down the highly modern examples.But only thing is they are not atall tested out of the above mentioned countries. And Pak has indeed proved that even a spineless can win gold in an athletic event in olympics!

  87. Ironman Says:

    Its not easy to design and develop new fighters from scratch. The time and money required as simply too much.

    The main use of LCA is to boost national pride. It is in line with Indian made missles, Indian made cars, Indian made software, Indian made rockets, trucks, railways, etc…some of which are also exported.

    Never mind exporting, does Pakistan even make any indigenous car, truck, railways. Even a toothpaste?

    Pakistanis in general have a lot of pride. But they should keep one eye on reality…if they don’t want to sound silly.

  88. Ali Says:

    WellI see the patritic Indian & Pakistanies

    Now we see the reality that Pakistan do not make the JF17 thunder Aircraft
    ok
    Who says that Pakistan Make the AIrcraft wholly But one Thing we share with china which they do not have. It is exclense of flying advance Air craft which Chinese have not experince
    . We traind our Paiolts on F16.So our paiolts are one who can check Air crafts Limits.And we cooperte in Many Feilds I can not go minute detail

    But we made it you can say it By hock or By Crook.

    If I also admit indian Aligation.Adnt that the LCA is More Advanced & JF17 is not

    But it is no ground serving the Airforces on China & Pakistan

  89. Ali Says:

    Now

    As nutral person I congratulate India to take steps inAdvancement

    My Father served PAF and he was in Airframe Trade in Mairage
    which you say delta wing

    but The desin are not likely that which you can take from computer in a week
    but the Indian must do something that it is also not like that a desgin take couple of decade
    When the Aircraft given to Indian Air force pailot then they gave the real answers. Not only Test Pailots.

    So carry on India

    And for Pakistanise Dont take it like that
    do a good cunstucted approach in research

    not like Indian
    If Indian Airforce do some which is an Achievment we Should Appriciate them

    Because the Reality is That we
    India & Pakistan Both Far away from Advanced Technologies. So Hard work Both Pakitan & India

  90. khawar Says:

    pakisatn zindabad

  91. khawar Says:

    I WOULD SAY PAF IS BETTER THAN iaf IN ALL ASPECTS IAF HAS LOST MORE THAN 100 PILOTS IN 283 DIFFRENT ACCIDENTS WHICH NO DOUBT OCCUR DUE TO POOR TRAINING OF PILOTS AND IGNORANCE OF PLANES BY AIRMENS AND INDIA HAS LOST MORE THAN 124 PLANES MOST OF THEM ARE MIG AND THE LOST OF PAF IS LESS IN THE WORLD AFTER TURKEY WHICH IS ALSO OUR BROTHER COUNTRY.THE PAF TRAINING SCHOOL OF SARGHODA IS BEST IN THE WORLD.IN 1965 WAR IAF LOST 129 JETS AND PAF LOST NOT MORE THAN 30 SO HOW CAN YOU SAY YOU WIN THE WAR AND WHAT I AM WRITIG IS ON RECORD IF THERE IS DOUBT ASK YOUR PILOTS OK.PAF IS SECOND TO NONE. PLANE CAN BE V GOOD BUT IF THERE PILOT DO NOT LEARNT THE TACTICS AND TACADE THEN PLANE IS USELESS PAF ALWAYS HAVE INTERACTION WITH OTHER AIRFORCES WHICH MAKE IT SUPERIOR TO TO iaf PAF HAS LONGEST FLYING HOURS.OUR ACADAMIES ARE BEST IN THE WORLD THE PAKISTAB MILTARY ACADEMY IS THE THIRD BEST ACADEMY IN THE WORLD AND INDIA IS ON 23 OR 25 NUMBER .THERE IS NO COMPARISON BETWEEN PAF ACADEMY AND IAF ACADEMY PAF IS FAR FAR FAR FAR BETTER AND I THING MORE THERE IS NO RAPE CASE EVER IN OUR ARMY,PAF AND NAVY AND IN YOUR THERE ARE NORE THAN 1000.OUR SOLIDERS HAVE COURAGE AND YOURS KILL THERE OWN FELLOW MENS AND THAN SUCIDE.YOUR PLOTS ALWAYS HAVE FEAR WHEN THEY FLY IT IS AGAIN DUE TO POOR TRAINING AND SLECTION.PAF IS ON RECORD HAVE THE MOST INTELLIGENT PILOTS IF YOU NOT WITH ME ASK YOUR PILOTS THEY WOULD DEFINATELY AGREE WITH ME AND IN YOUR PARLIMENT THERE IS ALWAYS QUESTION ABOUT iaf MIGS.SO KEEP AN EYE ON THE REALITY AND THEN SAY SOMETHING ABOUT OUR FALCONS OUR NAVY.PAKISTAN ZINDABAD WE WOULD DEFEND OUR COUNTRY BY OUR LIFE AND DEATH OK INDIAN WAITING FOR REPLY

  92. khawar Says:

    I WANNA ASK SOME QUESTION TO GREAY 99
    1. INDIA IS COUNTRY TEN TIME BIGGER THAN PAKISTAN SO IN 1965 WAR IT SHOULD COVER AREA MORE THAN TEN TIMES PKISTAN BUT INDIA COVERED DOUBLE AND ALSO IT WAS A SURPAISE ATTACK AND INDIA THINKS IT WOULD COVER LAHORE ON THE 2ND DAY OF WAR CAN INDIA COVER IT??????? YOU LOST MORE THAN 124 JETS IN 1965 WAR AND DEAR YOUR BAVY CAN NOT TKE PART IN WAR YOU ARE THE ONLY COUNTRY WHO THINK THAT YOU WON THE WAR OF 1965.ASK YOUR PILOTS THAT THEY ARE BETTER THAN PAF NO DOUBT THARE ANS WOULD BE NO SO KEEP AN EYE ON REALITY DEAR AND THAN BARK AND WHAT ABOUT YOUR RAPE CASES IN IAF,ARMY AND NAVY????????????????//???????????????????????PAKISTAN ZINDABAD WE WOULD DEFEND OUR COUNTRY BY OUR LIFE AND DEATH AGIAN PAF IS SECOND TO NONE

  93. khawar Says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    INDIAN YOU SAID THAT INDIA CAN TAKE OVER PAKISTAN IN 2 DAYS YOU ARE SO FUNNY MAN. IN 2 DAYS YOU CAN NOT CROSS THE INTERNATIONAL BORDER FOR INDIANS ONLY WE PATHANS ARE ENOUGH FOR YOU IF YOU WANNA FIGHT COME WE WILL SHOW YOU OUR COURAGE,,,VALOUR AND PATRIOTISM WE ARE WAI
    TING FOR YOU

  94. winged Stallion Says:

    Khawar@

    Can you please explain the sources where you found out that PAF academy is better than Indian one?And do we in Indian Army has faced any charges as you have mentioned?if yes,Plese provide the sources.A blame can be made but not proved.And that is the case even with Indian Army. And what do you know about Indian Army except few “sources” on forums like Pakdefence.com or some other Blah..Blah Pak websites? Are you reffering to any credibile information available with you?If yes,please enlighten us the “poor Souls” of Indian Army.We as a force is renowned and doesn’t need your(Paki’s) certificate. And if you have any relatives who has served in Pak Army in 1971 war/OP Vijay (Kargil),Please ask about us(Indian Army).Entire world,including your leaders know the difference between Indian Armed Forces and Pakistan Armed Forces.Hence the entire arguments made by you and your freinds are just empty Blah..Blah’s. A war is a set of battles and among the set of battles there might be setbacks in few places.But the victor is having the large numbers of battle won.So please dont state that the upperhand in very few battles are the valour of Pakistan Armed Forces.Because the upperhand is just a bubble to be blown away.
    And if you are seriously interested come on lets have issue based discussions.

  95. khawar Says:

    my dear wiligton my father is in army LT COL my brother is also in army he is LT.You are not agree with me becoz when you born your father said our airforce is best and you said yes papa you are right.dear hindu do you dirty indian ever ruled the whole south asia no.we muslims ruled the south asia more than 800 years you hindus are birth of our servants and if your relative is in iaf you should ask them about the security record of your iaf.dear paf have not lost more then 30 jets in routine flight and you have lost more then 120s ask your pilots then say smthing abiut our falcons.dear if your army now attack on pakistan you dont expect what can happn with you.if you attakk on pakistan tell me which neighbour country will support you
    iran NO
    China NO
    SRILANKA NO
    bangladesh no
    AND TELL ME WILL INDIA SURVIVE SOROUNDED BY PAKISTAN,CHINA,BANGLADESH????? AND IN 1971 WAR WE HAVE ONLY 1 OPRARTIONAL SQUARDON.AND DO YOU NOT AGREE WITH ME THAT PAKISTAN MILTARY ACADEMY IS THE 3RD BEST ACADEMY IN THE WORLD.AND WHICH OF OUR LEADER HAVE SENT email to that indian army is better than pakistan army.you only have large number of men in your army nothing else.and what about your accuracy of missiles 70 percent not more.we would defend our country by our life and death.PAKISTAN ZINDABAD PAKISTAN ARMY PAINDABAD.

  96. khawar Says:

    WINGED STALLION HIND READ THIS ABOUT YOUR AIRFORCE
    now i am writng some thing from you website ok
    READ THE TOPIC ON GOOGLE AFTER WRITING TOTAL JETS LOST BY IAF THE HINDU. PILOTS AND ACCIDENTS IN IAF
    P.CHIDAMBRAM SAID LIFE IS CHEAP IAF HE CLAIMS THAT IAF TREATS LIFE CHEAP
    30 JETS PER YEAR NOW 23 JETS PER YEAR LOST BY iaf
    WARBIRDS OF INDIA FOROUM WRITE TOTAL JETS LOST BY IAF AND READ THE TOPIC ON GOOGLE topic hover and out BY SANDEEP UNNITHAN DECEMBER 27 2007 I AM NOT WRITING THE DETAI
    COMANDER JANAK BAVELI SEA WARRIOR CAME TO LAND ON TAMARAC NAVAL AIR STATION AT GOA COMANDER GENTLY ROTATED THE THE SEA HARIOR VERTICAL\SHORT TAKE OFF AND LANDING THURST NOZZLE IS TOWARD THE RUNWAY JET BECOME OUT OF CONTROL PILOT EJECTED AND IT WAS 17TH JET OUT OF 30 TO CRASH SINCE THEIR INDUCTION SINCE 1983 .ALSO READ ON GOOGLE AFTER WRITING TOTAL JETS LOST BY IAF. THE SUNDAY TRIBUNE SPECTRUM READ WHAT IS WRITTEN ON THE BELOW THE HEADIN THAT IAF CLOSE TO 200 FIGHTER PILOTS.ALSO READ ON GOOGLE AFTER WRITIG TOTAL JR=ETS LOST BY IAF FLT SAFETY VS COMBAT READINESS. THIS ALL IS NOT ON PAKDEFENCE.COM FIRST BY AJT THEN SAY SOME THING ABOUT OUR PAF THIS ALL IS ANSWER FOR YOUR ACADEMY IS NOT BETTER THAN OUR.OK AND TELL ME WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND.OK

  97. winged Stallion Says:

    My Dear “Khawar” your knowledge, language and bad eye for details proves that how depressed you are(ingenereal you Paki’s), see i don’t have any necessity to use foul languages like you.The reason is simple we are not depressed.See depression is one of the worst symptom of insecurity. Grow up my boy. Do you think we are fools? It is easy to say that my baap was a Lt.Col and my Bro is a Lt. And if you have such a lineage, why are you not into Army? Going forward please rectify your spelling mistakes. I don’t have to say that my baap/bro is in army because I am filling the gap.Hence I needn’t have to rely on others for information,like you.Do you have any intelligence back-ups for your claims?You are permitted to use whatever language/Craziest ideas on your power while replying.Because it is the only place you can expect a victory! And I am not in race with you to match up your idiocracy.Also I do know that there is no proof with you to prove that Indian Academy is inferior to your’s.Mera Baap nowher have I mentioned that your leaders have sent an personal email to me.But please remeber back in 1999 during OP Vijay your prme minister dashed to USA to plead Bill Clinton to Intervene in between.The reason He feared Annihilation of Pakistan Armed Forces at the Hands of US(Indian Armed forces).And please keep in mind that if your father was an Lt,Col as you have mentioned, he should be from IMA(Indian Military Academy)Because first two generations of Pakistan Generals were from IMA.
    And at last one simple incident,Which my CO shared about 1971 war.One of the surrendered Pakistani Soldier in Garibpur sector in “east Pakistan” had a complaint about the treatment of POW’s.The complaint was that rationing(food Articles) was in lesser quantity considered to the quanty in 1965.Then obviously he was offered much more as he was our regular guest!
    Brother, at last my sincere advice please don’t take hatredness too much.Because it is going to affect none other than you.See at present Indian army is able to give a fitting reply in any kind of terrain and even in guerilla warfare.And I don’t know the “ranking” of the CIJW academy.But entire world belives it is the best and are eager to get trained in it.Also look at your nation,Your army is getting bogged down in NWFP.Reason according to your leaders army is trained only in Conventional warfare and not in guerilla warfare.
    Confidence is necessary, but over-confidence? Start respecting(not admiring) your enemy then you will be aware of your strength and weakness as well s enemy’s

  98. khawar Says:

    he passed out from out from pma not from ima .he is col not genral

  99. khawar Says:

    how many LCA iaf has now????

  100. great99 Says:

    Dear Khawar,
    Stop complaining like idiots and maggots, don’t give false facts without proves and at last don’t ABUSE OTHER RELIGIONS, you say you people ruled for over 800 yrs., please answer following questions to test your general knowledge :
    1. Name 3 earliest civiliztions ?
    2.Who taught you hindu’s are son’s of your servants, they are most ancient, some prove show as back as 10,0000 years ( ram Setu ).
    3.wich country has more Muslims, india or pakistan ?
    4.Is pakistan democratic ? ( atleast before 1 yr or so )
    5. Is pakistan Socialist, secular ?
    6. Please read Indo- Pak wars casualties on some reliable source ?
    7. Who the hell said Pakistan , Bangladesh , Sri Lanka can collectively defeat india ?
    8. who do you think will openly support if Pakist an attacks any country ?

    due rapid buildup of tech & globalisation, it is difficult for Country lke USA to capture IRAQ, so keep your mouth shut

    Sources say about 1 lakh of POW were captured in 1971 war. (wikipedia).

    10. Which second largest miliatry power (ASIA ) and third largest economical power in ASIA ?????????

    11. still needed, blah!!!!!!!!

  101. PAF FAN Says:

    indianssssssssss remember 1 thing creation OF PAKISTAN is every day defeat to india
    great 99
    i dont know khawar but pakistan can defeat india singly also
    and again remember 1 thing creation of PAKISTAN is every day defeat to india
    winged stallion
    i think you are an army officer so tell me usa army is very well trained for gorilla war so why usa is stuck in iraq and our casualties are less than americans.If you are proud of you army so plz take your 1 unit in iraq or afghanistan for 2 weeks and then show your gorilla trianing there you even cannot fight there for 2 hours stop boasting of your army and tell me if you are in army it not compulsory that your son also join army and our police is better than your army what your army is doing in kashmir to rape the womens are not in there duty and i am surprise to see that our lt cols was passed from ima you even dont know the ranks and you are in army.and once again creation of PAKISTAN is every day defeat to india.PAKISTAN ZINDABAD

  102. PAF FAN Says:

    1 THING MORE WE OUR WAITING WHEN WILL YOUR PILOTS CRASH THEIR ALL JETS AND I HOPE THEY WILL DO IT VERY SOON AS THEY ARE FLYING THIER PLANES NOW.

  103. great99 Says:

    ok i accept you win the war.let be friends.
    why we are fighting???????????????

  104. winged Stallion Says:

    My Dear Khawar,Before asking How many LCA’s has been inducted into IAF,Can you please enlightn us by informing how many full specs JF-17 “THUNDER” has been inducted into PAF?Also,do you have any answers to GREAT 99′S questions?Thanks to you GREAT 99,Cheers!. I bet Your armed forces will not have a chance to stand infront of us for more than a week or 10 days.The Blah…Blah’s and shrill mongering are just displays of herism only limited to your National Day Parade. And of course you follow the same stance in these forums but could never enact the same on Field.Please have rationale thinking not emotional thinking.
    I didn’t ever mentioned that your father was an General. What I had to say was PMA was designed on the basis of IMA because first two generations of Generals in PAK army were from IMA. And one more thing,you told Hindus are cjildren borne out of your servants,do you know the lineage of Indians?Pakistani’s belong to DNA group MtDNA haplogroups M4a which is present only in Pakistan and some parts of Kashmir.Hence your accusations doesn’t hold ground of the genetic lineage.
    Brother you had been so silly, instead of getting angry,I pity your knowledge level.

  105. Ronnie Says:

    @PAK FAN

    dude creation of pakistan is defeat for india…wtf??what do u mean by this??y are we still fighting over this in the first place…

  106. winged Stallion Says:

    @ Pak Fan,
    I am not amzed by the levels of your knowledge,because all these years it has been taught to you.And if you are aware of the history asi it was,History means Military history as well as Political History.Can you please show any instance of accusation proved rather than a mere blame?And are you aware of your Military history of OP searchlight in “East Pakistan”?What is meant by “GORILLA” Warfare?Please be informed that US Army in Iraq is fighting a mixture of guerilla warfare and Urban warfare tactics.And the both have a different battle plane for success.I agree that they cannot be won overnight,but it doesn’t mean that these tactics are invincible.These warfare are just denying the victory,will not have any major consequences except few headlines.Right intelligence and appropriate actions will weaken the stance posed by these elements, as it has already been seen.And India is not in hurry to join the board with Americans.And I don’t think there is any oppurtunity for us to be in theatre.In Afghanistan the tacits being used are neither Guerilla nor Urban warfare.except few Ambushes.For your kind information Indian security forces are already present in Afghanistan.But the scope of operations differ from aggressor’s because our forces are in defensive position securing Indian establishment present in the theatre. Whe have considerable amount of experience fighting and winning guerilla tactics. Need Example? OP Vijay as of recent and ask your fore fathers for their experience with us in 1971!And if you hadany info on ourCounter Insurjency and jungle warfare school you would not have been asking this question.And you belive and boast of your superior martial race, then why are you not into army?And where is Pakistan defence forces standing in fighting against your own creations in Swat and NWFP?Please read the history book again,Prior to partition of India there was neither Pakistan or Pakistan Army.Then how would your Army have generals not trained in IMA?Once again I re-affirm that first two generations of generals are traine dfrom IMA.Creation of Pakistan was no heroism because India was partioned by Brits, not due to your grit.Please don’t forget your fore fathers were also Indians. And at last I appreciate your Imagination that a strongest airforce on the continent will fall off flying!

  107. paf fan Says:

    you are saying pak will be no more since 1947 you cannot do anything against pakistan .

  108. paf fan Says:

    inshallah i will join army i am a student of 9th class.

  109. winged Stallion Says:

    @ Paf fan,
    Hi Kiddy,where is Pakistan in the world map? Do you have any thing to be proud of?like Technology,Heritage,Culture, GDP,GNP,Export.Some of the terms mentioned here is irrelevant for you people.By the time you are grown up there will be no PAK army except for few militias.Already Pakistan is in shatters(Baloch,NWFP) and heavy violence in Punjab and Sindh provinces.Do you think Pak has a future?

  110. great99 Says:

    @ Paf Fan
    I am no idiot.Do not try to post your bad and boofy commnts under my SCREEn Name understand you iidiot !!!!!
    Are you out of your mind, where is your greymatter ???????

    Pakistan will alone win war against INDIA ? GAG of the millenium !!!!!!!!!
    Haven’t you people heard about GURKHA regiment. Aren’t they one of the bravest ? Which country has highest no. of soldiers in this regiment ( ans. is INDIA )
    By the way Indian soldiers are already in IRAQ , so think atleast 100000000 times before opening your foul smelling mouth against INDIA.

    Come on you Pakis, it is no shame in accepting that your neighbour is stronger than you. Think liberaly, India has everything needed greater than yours, Quality and Quantity and ofcourse mind. It is just a matter of another 50 yrs. and India will be another big Superpower.You get it !!!!!

    You are living because India , China & USA. (you get water from Indus Treaty, you are pet dog of China & USA )

    And altogether, If Pakistan is so brave, why did you join SEATO because you feared if INDIA attacks there will be no one to stop PAK from destruction. But don’t fear, India will never attack until you attack ( NO FIRST STRIKE POLICY)

    Actually you must be ashamed of your self , you are not true PAKI. No religion or country teaches violence and to kill others. I have seen many PAKI, calm and composed, not a mind freak like you.

    By the way, have you heard anyone saying One Day Pakistan will be a superpower, no cause it never can be true.

    This computer upon which you are working is work of INDIA (why, comp works upon 0 & 1 , and who invented this 0 )

    Just because we like peace and prefer peace over war (but you see future in destroying India ), we don’t invade other countries , we respect other country’s independence and republic, it doesn’t means we are weak can’t do anything, we hate war but hate defeat even war.

    @winged stallion:
    cheers guy, good views:
    One thing pakistan is ver proud of : thier day dreaming and thier TERRORISM.

    GAG OF the DAY:
    WHAT will you say to get majority in PAK legislature in one sentence ????????
    ANs. we will attack INDIA. ha! HA !

    You all pakis, get lost. What have you transformed a very niceand good place like pakistan into hell ?
    A country wich had great leaders like JINNAH (not talking about SEPARATION part ). A country that promised to be great country, taking care of it’s people and protector of ISLAM. You have made it a battlefield, you spoil your young generation and instead of good constructive ideas comes thoughts of war, anti-communal views, holy war views, violence views.

    We would have been together a good country but you have destroyed PAK, this ex-great country is on path of self destruction.

  111. Ghauri Says:

    LOL – Indians are not only stupid, they are pathetic. Pakistanis are not in the business of reinventing the wheel unlike indians who try and try and try but still can’t manage a bit. Comparing JF17 with lca is idiotic and show inferiority complex by the theorist of this discussion. LCA project is meant to have the same doom as Arjun (remember?) while Pakistan’s Al-Khalid MBT is ready for combat. You indians should just stop thinking about fighting the Pakistanis unless you want your rear kicked. Pakistan has other important things to worry about like our dealings with the active world powers (we aren’t a major non-NATO ally for nothing). You indians worry about LCA and whatever that is that isro does. Pakistan is there to stay and we don’t care even a bit about india and its military (if they have a real one to begin with). Enjoy your rides in Mig 21 (aka flying coffins). With Chinese help or otherwise Pakistanis crave to get their business done. Just remember that. BTW in 1948 Azad Kashmir did not become AZAD (free) by itself, it was Pakistan that seized it from the indians. Chao chao.

  112. Ghauri Says:

    winged Stallion Says:
    May 28, 2008 at 9:29 pm
    @ Paf fan,
    Hi Kiddy,where is Pakistan in the world map? Do you have any thing to be proud of?like Technology,Heritage,Culture, GDP,GNP,Export.Some of the terms mentioned here is irrelevant for you people.By the time you are grown up there will be no PAK army except for few militias.Already Pakistan is in shatters(Baloch,NWFP) and heavy violence in Punjab and Sindh provinces.Do you think Pak has a future?
    What kind of technology is there that india is proud of? Over a billion people in india but only a fraction of world trade? Trivial than that of Singapore’s? What kind of heritage are you proud of? What about your culture? One where females are sold upon birth, or if they survive that, are forced to burn with their husbands (sati)? I don’t even want to bother with GDP, GNP etc. I am yet to come across an Indian export? Would you name a few?
    What about Asaam, Tamil nado and Kashmir? Forgot Khalistan movement? Train bombing every other month, bombs every now and than. Killing of minorites in Ayodhia and Gujrat, Sev Sinha. Don’t worry about Pakistan being in shatters. At least we are not in sprawling slums and people in the north can speak with people in south. What is this pride thing between north and south indians? I guess they are two different creatures and just can’t get along. Just because every problem in Pakistan is highlighted and problem and evils in india are under shadowed, cease to think that everything is rosy in your pitiable india. Go take care of the tribulations there, feed your hungry and then lose sleep over others, you will look better.

  113. imran Says:

    Hi Very clearly our paki friends are making the usuall outlandish statements of a cornered animal.
    LCA has taken time with overruns, however DRDO is getting it right finally. The airframe has 60% composites a technology which Indian educational institutions have been researching for many years including my alma mater IIS Bangalore, also the fly by wire system is more sophisticated, it has a tailless frame and is probabely the more maneuverable craft among the 4+ generation.
    Effectively it can be considered a good 4th generation aircraft close to the Mirage 2000 capabilities.
    The Chinese Jc17 series is basically a slightly improved version of the Mig 21 with better avionics. The a good 3rd generation aircraft and for a small country like Pak it probabely the bet and insurance against India. India front line aircraft will be Mig 29, 27, SU 30, mIRAGE 2000, 5TH Generation India+Russia plane, 125 new Euro typhoons or the F18’s that India will buy soon.
    So if India 2 line of defense with LCA is clearly better than Pak’s 1st line cHINESE, & the 25 operational outdated F16’s NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. We Indians should focus our energies to build the economy to become the 2 most powerfull nation in Asia after China and drive global geopolitics. Today Tata’s just bought Rangerover + Jaguar, they also introduced the ‘nano’ the cheapest EURO 4 compaint car in the world. This company alone has revenues of 60+billion dollars and can buy the pakistani economy, lets focus on the big wins not the little pests surrounding us brothers. I rather say you Pakis shoudlrevolt and join the Indian Dpminion for your own future. Jai Hind

  114. Ali Khan Orakzai Says:

    Not-so-great99,
    Here are the answers to your questions. It seems like the Hindutva syllabus you’ve been indoctrinated in is not really teaching you the real facts! :)

    1. Name 3 earliest civiliztions ? >>> Indus(PAKISTAN), Nile(EGYPT) and Babylon(IRAQ). As your BJP supporting ass can see, they are ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES TODAY. So regardless of if they were before the era of Islam, they all wisely saw the truth and are currently MUSLIM countries. Where does your Bharat-ma’ta fit into this picutre???

    2.Who taught you hindu’s are son’s of your servants, they are most ancient, some prove show as back as 10,0000 years ( ram Setu ). >> Servants can be ancient! :) Just kidding. That comment was typical comment by a naive Pakistani kid. You are smarter than to respond to some comment like that! Just ignore comments like that and keep the discussion focused!

    3.wich country has more Muslims, india or pakistan ? >>> A resounding PAKISTAN!!! Go check your facts Mr. India! Your own government says that India only has about 139 Million Muslims in your Country(13% of 1.07 Billion population), whereas Pakistan has about 160 Million Muslims(97% of 165 Million Population). So please, you cant have your cake and eat it too(Claim to have more muslims AND have a BJP mindset that hates muslims).

    4.Is pakistan democratic ? ( atleast before 1 yr or so ). >>> YES, it is today!. And even when we were not democratic, its about as efficient a government as yours.

    5. Is pakistan Socialist, secular ? >> NEITHER. What does this have to do with the discussion? Is BJP secular or socialist???

    6. Please read Indo- Pak wars casualties on some reliable source ? >>> You do the same, and not Bharat Rakshaw website. You guys have casulties over 5000!!! Dont believe the BS you hear from your own government. Pakistan lost about 1000 soldiers who had NO AIR SUPPORT, and barely any logistical support. Even your own Army says Pakistani soldiers fought valiantly with heavy odds against them. There’s no point in disucssing this war. The fact still remains that PAKISTAN VACATED Kargil, India did not “win” Kargil. It was a POLITICAL DEFEAT for Pakistan. Apni Auqaat maat bhoolo!

    7. Who the hell said Pakistan , Bangladesh , Sri Lanka can collectively defeat india ? >>> There’s NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT. Your BJP-India Shining mentality has lost touch with reality of the Hindustan that is still mired in poverty, with over 60% of the population living below $2/day!!! Again, apni Auqaat maat bhoolo!! Just because you won some outsourcing contracts doesnt mean that you guys are America all of a sudden.!!! IT/Outsourcing only affects about 2 million Indians out of a population of 1.07 BILLION!!! A drop in the bucket. yes you guys can proudly claim to have one of the Largest disparity between rich and poor in the world!!! the haves and have nots!!! There are still hundreds of millions of homeless people in your country for every Billionaire on the Forbes richest list!
    Dont act like a typical new money person who forgets his Auqaat!

    8. who do you think will openly support if Pakist an attacks any country ? >>> What the hell did you ask here??? Doest make any sense???
    If you are asking who will support Pakistan, well then the list goes like this: China, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, UAE, Kuwait.
    Who do you think will support India if you attack Pakistan apart from Russia???

  115. nato planner Says:

    im sure the aesa radar is a bit faster then anyrussian made radar..but it still has comparable range.

  116. winged Stallion Says:

    Ali kHan,
    Can you also Please mention that Indus civilization was an ancient Hindu civilization, also please be informed that the other sites of Babylon and Nile civilizations nowher in the history has been mentioned they vwere Muslims as present they are.
    And Do you know any thing about PPP(Purchase power parity) and the ways to improve it?We are not a feudal society where rich to become richer and poor remains poorer.A country like India would be self sufficient and will for sure prosper for ever.The type of India is having at present will improve PPP as more people are able to spend much more than what used to be a decade ago and in turn it employs people directly and indirectly leading to more income generation and expenditure. As this is an continuous process, poverty will be a matter of history and it is just a matter of time.So our country doesn’t have a bleak future atall. And also look at your country’s performance for the last decades.Major export -Terrorrism, GNP growth 1000%,GNP is meant by Gross domestic Poverty!Please look at your county’s vital statistics like poverty abolition,Industrialisation,Sanitation,Health,Exports, employment growth,food security, etc.etc..You can never be proud of being in higher rankingthan countries like Sudan.
    What do you mean in an event of war Will all the countries stand behind you?Please remember the fate of Afghan because the hatredness was gift of your own country on Afghan and when America pressurized to support you abaondoned poor Taliban guys and Osama.And do you have any proof that they will be behind you incase of a war with us?even for the oil needs we are not dependent on middle east countries oriented towards you guys.And for your doubt who will support us, please remember that there was a massive diplomatic outcry both even in 1971 and recent Kargil. Also please try to find the exact reason why Mushraff presurrised Nawaz to go to U S president?The reason being to avoid the Annihilation of Pak army.Also please read your DAWN issues during the kargil war, you will find information which is different from PTV version!
    We are not solely dependent on Bharathrakshak for information neither do they publish biased information like pakdefence.
    Boy think about development of your own and we know to how to develop. Also we dont need any Gyan from you guys at all.

  117. Ali Khan Orakzai Says:

    Winged Stallion, your wings are about you get clipped!
    Thanks for the long “Bhashan”(lecture in your sanskrit language) on PPP and how well the trickle-down economics are working in India. Its a fact that the disparity between the haves and have-nots is increasing in India and thats why your government is trying to do some token things like forgive the loans to the farmers etc…
    Its great that you guys are developing, but my point was that most of you guys act like you are ALREADY some super developed country whereas the facts bear otherwise! I have friends who have visited both India and Pakistan in consecutive trips back to back, and they all UNANIMOUSLY say that Pakistan is way cleaner, more prosperous, and just simply a better overall looking country. Yes, the difference might not be that big, but its there still.
    You assume that somehow it was only your Bharat Mata that was chugging along in this decade and Pakistan was somehow moving backwards, whereas the facts are that Pakistan ALSO sustained a high rate of growth, albeit we could have grown faster!
    The point is that you guys need to come back to earth and realize that you are not so different from Pakistan that you all of a sudden get this idea that India is somehow more advanced. Both countries are about equal in development, poverty etc. Apni Auqaat maat bhoolo. Keep on repeating this whenever you forget that you guys are not a developed country!
    And what the fudge is Gyan? English or common Urdu/Hindustani please.
    P.S. I dont need a lecture from you on Afghanistan and that region as I come from the Orakzai Tribal Agency from Pakistan’s tribal areas. I know Afghans like the back of my hand.

  118. Ghauri Says:

    JF17 is a Pakistani and Chinese aircraft. Not just Chinese. LCA is going to be a failed project just like Arjun. (I am being nice here. The fact is LCA already is a failed project!). Are you sure you guys want this Little Crappie Aircraft skirmishing JF17? As for JF17, Chinese or Pakistani, good or bad, whatever you think, it works…and it is being produce… Just like Al-Khalid main battle tanks. Get it!

    By the way, why discuss LCA? It is something that doesn’t really exist to begin with. And as history tells us, it never will come into being. After all it’s an Indian project… Take a chill pill and try to digest the fact if possible.

    I do expect stupid replies as it is an Indian tradition (history tells us). Okay, let the show begin….

  119. great99 Says:

    He check this out:
    http://www.globalfirepower.com

    India ranked 4th and Pakistaan way below even australia

  120. great99 Says:

    Ali khan Whatever ( too long name, get a short nickname, olr contact me if you don’t have brains to think ) now main issue:

    1. India’s population is 1.28 billion not 1.07 b so there’s your error.
    2. even if you gain support of those country, you can’t win war and yes CHINA won’t support your attack anymore (recent tibet issue make me belive so) and collectively they all can’t defeat india.

    3. Dare not abuse SANSKRIT, it is mother of all languages born in INDIAN SUBCONTINENT ( many around the world including ENGLISH and URDU ) and it was first language with written characters as well as spoken.

    4. read casualities from decent source like WIKIPEDIA or ENCARTA which in turn are neutral so no problem for that.

    5. WB poverty citeria is $1 per day not $2 which in turn is our 35% population. Our poverty criteria is RS 454 in URBAN and 328 in RURAL so that way our 26.1 population is below poverty line. What about Literacy rate, HDI
    ( human development index which is best criteria of all) GDP. Even though you may be good in some areas like Infant Mortality rate but that’s all due to low population ( you growth rate of pop. is above 2, not good for future )
    You must not forget when british left INDIA 90% pop was Illetrate and Below poverty line.

    6. talking about stupid freinds of yours, they actually have visited some bad cities as so. Ask em whether they have ever been to good cities like GURGAON. NEW DELHI ( not old delhi ) banglore and many more. That way you surely loose.

    7. in an non-democratic, non secular state your countries future lies in hands of a mind freak like P. Musharraf who get your many good soldiers killed due to daydreaming and maddness. That’s 0.1% of total reasons why our GOVT. is more effeceint than yours.

    8.My freind has already told you about civlization.

    9. SEE muslims fell more safer in INDIA than PM feels about his safety in PAK (kidding) PAK is world’s most dangerous place according to United States. You Jinnah’s last dream was one day INDIA and PAK will be united but today it seems it will be a dream.

    See talking about support people support those who fights for goodness and mankind, who fights for truth. I dont like US attacking IRAQ. So no point in gaining support of all Mulim based countries.

    Talking about BJP , BJP has produced very good ministers is surely more democratic socialist sec. than everything in your country. BJP has got punishment and will get punishment for bad karma (deeds) in form of not being elected and will be rewarded for good deeds, it is none of your bussiness.. I have read many sites like PAK defence they talk like you ( “apni aowkat mat bhulo” ) this shows your hatredness. narrow mindedness frustration about being incapable, icompetitent being inferiror to any another country. Only two quotes by two PAKIS inspired me to forgive you all about your abusive languages :

    ” You will not gain something by abusing like this by abusing other country and religion other than moral hystria and fake short termed happiness nor will you lose something by accepting your opponent is stronger than you. ”

    “look at yourself before pointing at others ” (this applies to all. )

    One thing more I ahve talked no. of people related to INDOA- PAK war, they say PAKIS were coward and mindless and fleed like rats when they see cats. I don’t know what is exactly true but this contradics fact that iNdian soldeirs are not brave and you are more brave.

  121. great99 Says:

    sorry for above to above fact PAKISTAN ranks 21 and australia is 22 but PAK is bekow spain, egypt and many more i never thought of.

  122. Ali Khan Orakzai Says:

    Again, Not-so-great89(because you are showing such lack of intelligence, you have been demoted to 89 from 99!):

    Lets talk about the Firepower issue first:
    1. Where would you rank Afghanistan’s firepower compared to USA??? How about Iraq to USA??
    You see my little friend, what you dont understand is the fact that us Muslims carry some very big firepower in our pants! You can “Calculate” all the GFP numbers you want, it dont mean nothing to a us.
    2. I welcome you to come to the pukhtun areas of pakistan and see for yourself our a) hospitality, and b) the GFP that each and every single one of our child carries on his shoulder and that each and every one of our child carries in his heart and mind. Its called HEART!

    3. You mean to tell me that with such amazing firepower that Mother India possess, your baniya soldiers couldnt capture lahore in 1965 or 1971?? You mean your greatly armed army couldnt do anything against the western front when they faced Pakistani Army with a measely #20 GFP rank?? WOw. Sounds like you guys are packing a lot of firepower but no one to acutally FIRE that power! :)

    5. The people you have been talking to who say Pakistanis are cowards must be BIGGER cowards because they couldnt defeat the Pakistani cowards! :) ahahahaha
    Ask they maha’cowards that belong to the Indian Army if they were wearing churian(bangles) in 1965 and 1971 that they couldnt take over Pakistan with all their might and great Firepower(that you seemed to be soo proud of!).

    5. By the way, ranking countries like Egypt, Canada, etc is a joke. that shows you how “well” that list is put together.

    6. My long name, if you can call it that, especially coming from an Indian with names with 50 syllables!) is long because of all the firepower I carry in my shalwar! :) Every pukhtun carries their name with honor and dignity. You can call me whatever you want on the internet, but I can promise you that you wont dare say it to my face. Thats a promise my little buddy!

    7. I dont know where you pulled Bharat Mata’s population from(maybe your ass??) but according to CIA World Factbook, your country’s population will be IN JULY 2008:
    Population: 1,147,995,898 (July 2008 est.)
    That means that there are about 146 Million Muslims in India, STILL MUCH LESS THAN PAKISTAN!!!
    So again Mr. BJP 2008, stop day dreaming and face the facts. You cant have your cake and eat it too.

    I understand well where Pakistan stands in the comity of nations, its you baniyas that forget your Auqaat! thats why you need reminders every now and then! I dont mean to be insulting, but when you forget your Auqaat, I think the most direct and best way to deal with that is to show you a mirror and bring you back down to earth. Remember your Auqaat and you will be treated with respect.

    The friends I have visited Mumbai, Hyderabad, and Delhi. I dont know if it was Gurgaon or what, but it was Delhi. I think they went to other touristy places like Rajasthan, Agra etc as well.

    Here’s an exact quote from one of them, who isnt really too big a fan of Pakistan’s development either: ” Coming back to karachi was like landing in Europe!”

  123. winged Stallion Says:

    @Ali Khan,
    I should apperciate you for daring me of clipping my wings!
    Can you kindly prove that Pak is better than India in any terms?How could a country be more prosperous when they are lacking industries,export,employment?I must appreciate you people for the attitude of challenging the established facts.Can you please quote references from where you can prove that Pak is on the track of exceptional development?I do agree as a developing country Pak will have a growing economy,but while considering the present GNP, a growth of 2.5-3% would not be too big as it has been perceived.We are way way ahead, as your GDP is valued at$437.5 Billion and ours rated at $4.156 trillion with growth rate of 2.7 and 8.9% respectively for the current year.As already have been explained that differences of economies between you and us, While our nation has created and been creating a lot of employment oppurtunities, Pakistan has a dwindling employment oppurtunities. Economy of Pak was so battered unless there was 9/11 event and so called war against terrorism by US,it would have reached the verge of collapse.Kindly gather more info on PPP growth of both countries.
    I am not contradicting your knowledge on Afghan, but questioning the way your country dumped Taliban led Afghan post 9/11 by joining hands with US.Hence can you rely on a third country like Iran,Saudi or china.Not a single country does like to intervene in between in case of a war.And you have a best example infront of you!Afghan!

  124. Do oh Says:

    What are we actually comparing here? LCA is light years from finished.

  125. great99 Says:

    @AKH
    ( i would dare to say anyname of yours right on your face or your ass if you got one, that’s my promise )
    few points you should know:
    1. according 2001 census our pop. 1.28 billion, i don’t know what world fact book says but i know they never conducted surveys in INDIA so i can’t trust them.
    2. Get a detail knowlegde of BANIYA’s first of all , know them and then speak.
    3.once again i say it should be new delhi not old delhi, your idiotic freind may have visited OLD delhi and bad areas. What makes KARACHI so special , no metros nothing. My freind who came back from karachi said “it is like landing back in heaven from the hell” We don’t need any confirmation from you on on our cities state, so please shut up !

    4. In 1971 war or our aim was not to capture karachi or your any territory, PAK attack from north when they were unable to save BANGLADESH forced us to retaliate but srtategy was just to defend from weak PAK and capture some amount of land to force you to tension and then to peace treaty. Our plan was never to capture KARACHI. (we don’t like wars that’s why, so kindly update your knowledge.

    5.in 1965, war our force were little bit disturbed by 1962 Indo_sino war losses, but then also our strategy was to capture some land to force you into treaty.

    6.I am quite sure Sri Lanka will give tough resistance. I am quite sure Egypt and Canada are quite better than PAK as they are better armed , army is more capable, leaders are more intellegent, soldiers are more brave and many more. Facts which prove it are below:
    http://globalfirepower.com/countries_comparison_detail.asp
    actually they train their soldiers on SOLDIER basis but your soldiers are trained on terrorist basis.
    7. INDIA _ PAK war is never a HINDU MUSLIM war, it is war between two Countries. In India all are treated equally and if not he can knock doors of courts and our justice rates are pretty good but i very well know it not the case with PAK. In our country they law to protect minority. I am sure all MUSLIMS of INDIA will support INDIA till death except terrorists from you.

    8. I read a few days ago that a boy came to New Delhi for his heart medical operation, he could get it no where in Pakistan or Karachi or your pushtin areas. He came to delhi, New delhi. That proves it ! Do you have no doctors and ifyou have how come they are not able to do such a job. Wht reason forced him to come INDIA ????????

    ( this is last time ) Get this feeling out of dumb mind asshole tha INDIA is a HINDU nation or hindi as offical language. INDIA is socialist secular democratic republic in which all are treated equally before law and we have 21 official language including URDU. India is largest democracy.

  126. Jackass Says:

    The messages from most of our Paki friends here leave me pretty distressed…
    Most of the Pakis appear to be complexed. Their jingoistic messages is all the firepower they carry.
    This leaves me distressed coz it simply means that the covert war which pak has carried out against India in Kashmir and elsewhere in the form of terrorism will just continue unabated for sometime.
    I sometimes wonder what might have been… if the Pakis had devoted so much time & resources constructively towards development of their populace; & India consequently would not have had to deploy so many resources countering these maniacs..
    Actually some Indians here are as bad!! “We will take over Pak in 2 days!!” Get a life dude. Even after winning the war against minnows Taliban, the US/ NATO forces are still not in full control of Afganistan..
    I mean when will you idiots get practical? India does not need this. We are way too busy catching up with the west economically to be welcoming war.
    I really feel that I am the odd one out here, not talking about firepower/bravery/war/pustuns/baniyas.. but I am sure I represent the majiority in India – who dont care two hoots about Pakis or what they think or want or even who they actually are!
    1947 happened even before my dad was born..
    For now I would really appreciate if the Pakis would get over their inferiority complex, stop bothering us with their exports of terrorists & let us get on with our lives.

    And please stop teaching your kids such nonsense.. The dude (whoever he was) was in 9th grade and aspiring to get into the army to kick India’s ass. So this is the highest ambition/aspiration of any Paki kid??

    I have a job which I am really good at, gives me a good income which helps me maintain a great lifestyle.. and am proud of the fact that my wife earns even more than me!!

    An unknown scenario for most of Pakistan??

  127. Rameez Says:

    hey jf-17 is a good plane but too primitive
    more than our mig-21 bison and bis upgrade
    and LCA as said by few officials can easily evolve into a 5 gen fighter which is still very stealthy and gives little trace on radar
    cause of its fibre glass body so if coated with radar absorbing material if would be invisible
    whereas jf-17 with overestimated qualities land up some where near our Mig-21 so how will they face da new MRCA which shall or could be a highly modded version of Mig-35 with only competitor in F-22 raptor.
    se guys i respect ur feelings that u want to destroy our country or do anything cause i think india is made of multi race people a u though belong to da same race of north india
    But even a fleet of tejas will kill whole swarn of ur F-16 da 4 gen aircraft forget those old version mirage u own i think so u will loose air superiority before the war starts
    I would say that till 1971 PAF was comparable to IAF but now they need at least F-22 to trigger a war by 2012

  128. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    i m giving the details about the weapon systems used by india & their comparision with weapon system used by pakistan & china.
    1) the much talked about LCA & JF-17.

    LCA is a state of the art ,smallest,lightweight,multirole fighter in the world.it 50% airframe is constructed out of carbon fibre.a quadruplex digital fly by wire system,an advanced MMR [even if india goes for the elta EL\M 2032 for the the early production variants,the 2032 is superior than the italian or the chinese radar on JF-17].elta EL\M 2032 can trach 10 and engage 2 most dangerous,kaveri engine which will give LCA the abality to supercruise [f404IN20 is also a good engine which is planned for installation on early production varients(40) before kaveri is ready.it is true that LCA's ground attack role will suffer due to this engine but air superiority role will not be affected].LCA has a low rcs,stol capable,has the capability to operate from uninproved runways.it is the only plane in the world which can take off from the altitude of 6.5kms,[most of the airfields airfields in kashmir are at heights between 3-6kms altitude].it is compatible with russian,indian & western weapon systems.the ejection seat of the LCA can be operated from outside the aircraft,which in situations can save the life of the pilot.this ejaction seat will be installed on the production varient & is indigiously developed by india.this is first of the kind ejection seat in the world.india is aslo developing its own BVR missile [astra] with a range of 85 kms.

    JF-17 is a joint development between pakistan & china.
    its radars[KLJ-7]&[grifo S-7] are less capable than the indian MMR and elta EL\M-2032 used by LCA.Italian radar lacks the capability of multi-target tracking and engagement via semi active radar homing air to air missiles.it is capable of tracking 8 and engaging only 1.it does not have a quadruplex digital FBW system.the airframe is an all metal airframe[3rd generation],no use of carbon composites, which increases the weight of the aircraft weight.the engine is purchased from russia[RD-33],nor pakistan or china have contributed to the engine.
    as per the news,china is going for the production of much more advanced J-10,hence only a small no of JF-17 will serve the chinese air force.

    ——————————————————————–

  129. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    1.- To counter the threat of pakistans F-7
    india has MIG 21 bisons
    2.-To counter the threat of pakistans F-16 & mirage III&V
    india has MIG-29.

    3.-the pak F-16 are capable of giving a fight for indian
    MIRAGE-2000H,JAGUAR,MIG-27,but does pakistan has any answer for the indian SU-30MKI? even the JF-17 does not stand a chance against the SU-30MKI………
    pakistan even needs to think about the LCA…
    SU-30MKI have already been inducted & india is operating nearly 40 SU-30MKI & 30 SU-30K\MK.before 2014 IAF will operate 230 SU-30MKI.once the induction of LCA commences from 2010,pakistan wont even have time to react.SU-30MKI & LCA along with MIG-29 will rule the sky.

  130. Rameez Says:

    India is on verge of becoming a world superpower if another world war is at trigger and tushar u are really a very cool guy the kaveri k-9+ which is the top notch kaveri engine and the only advanced kaveri engine known to us has outperformed GE-404 and GE-414 engine so kaveri k-10 would be a piece of art and technologically India is a much advanced country than pak(sorry for economic crises) and more friendly nations (except two hostile neighbors)like russia,US,france and whole europe and a large fleet of standing army with more than twice the fire power of air force which can put pakis like u all in dump who don’t respect ur mother nation

  131. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    lets talk about the navy…….

    pakistan is boasting on AUGASTA 90B,but the indian navy has already ordered the SCORPENE subs which r superior in performance than the AUGASTA 90B & will b inducted into the indian navy from 2011-2012 onwards.pakistan has 3 AUGASTA 90B subs and india has ordered 6 SCORPENE subs & is even looking out for another 6.indain navy 2day operates 16 subs & pakistan has only 7-8 subs.wat abt the indian nuclear ATV?does pakistan have any ans to this sub.
    the first will b inducted at the end 0f 2009 or early 2010.construction of 2nd one is also underway.initally K-15 missiles [range 750 kms]successfully tested trice, will b installed on the ATV’s,sub launch version of AGNI-3[range 3500kms]is being developed & is in the advanced stage of development & is scheduled to b tested in early 2009.even nirbhay cruise missile [range 1000 kms]is in last stage of development & will b tested in late 2008.BRAHMOS[range 290 kms ,speed mach 2.8(1st of its kind in the world)] will b deployed on ATV ’s as an anti ship weapon & the land attack version has also been developed and currently being tested[navy version]& is in final stage.land attack version[army version] of BRAHMOS has already been inducted.no ship in the world can defend itself from BRAHMOS.BRAHMOS-2,an hypersonic version is under development.it is the 1st supersonic cruise missile in the world.indian navy combat fleet consists of 145 ships & pakistan navy combat fleet is only 35.in 2012-2013 indian navy will operate 3 aircraft carriers.pakistan navy can not afford even to think of an aircraft carrier as pakistan cannot handle even the maintainance of even 1 aircraft carrier.the future indian navy carriers will operate advanced MIG-29k & LCA fighters.even K-15 can hit karachi.
    india is also prepared to lease 2 AKULA-II subs & will join indian navy mostly in oct 2008.india also has a option when purchase this subs when the lease is complete.AKULA-II will b armed with 3M-54Klub nuclear capable missiles.india has also built indigious stealth frigates [shivalik class]3 will enter service in 2009.9 more of this ships will b built in separate batches.3 talwar class stealth frigates have alredy been inducted into the indian navy & 3 more advanced talwar class stealth frigated will b inducted in 2012.
    indian navy is 1 of the best navies of the world.

  132. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    india will get 3 PHALCON AWACS in 2009 & 3 more will be ordered & will the indian airforce in 2012.phalcon is much more advanced than the saab awacs ordered by pakistan.
    it will boost indian air defence.

  133. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    let the pakistanis develop a number of ballistic missiles or be it cruise missiles but they will be nearly useless in another in another 4-5 years[2012-2013]when india deploys its indigious missile defence shield ,the PAD & AAD have already been successfully tested.[PAD in 2006 & AAD in 2007].PAD is an exo- atmospheric with maximum interception altitude of 80 kms.AAD is an endo-atmospheric with maximum interception altitude of 30 kms.india has also initiated the induction of AKASH SAM system with a range of 25 kms and max altitude of 16000mts.surveillance sensor(3 D CAR) is capable of detecting and tracking aerial targets upto a range of 150kms and altitude of 18 kms. rajendra radar mkII has dection range of 60 kms and has the capibility to guide 8 missiles at 4 targets simultaneously.indian airforce is also acquiring 18 SPYDAR sam systems from israel.india & israel are jointly developing medium range sam syatem named BARAK-II with a range of 60-65 kms and will be inducted into between 2012-2014.india is also developing low level quick reaction missile[LLQRM] with MBDA named MAITRI.pakistan air defence consists of crotale-2000/3000[range 11kms & attitude 6000m][25 launchers],SA-2[range 20 kms & altitude 18000mts][32 launchers] which are outdated and are currently being phased out,RBS-70[MANPAD], FIM-92stinger[MANPAD] and some anti aircraft guns.
    compared to indian air defence,pakistan air defence systems are not even 25% of what india possess.
    SA-3,SA-8,SA-6,SA-12,SA-9,SA-7[MANPAD]
    SA-10,SA-16[MANPAD],IGLA[MANPAD],AKASH.
    checkout: http://globalfirepower.com/list_missile_defense.asp
    india-7175 .
    pak-2100.

  134. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    does any pakistan guys have ans for my postings ?
    y r u silent…..?
    u enjoyed majority in here……but now i m here.
    u bluffed a lot about JF-17..
    read my posting.
    there are’nt any mistakes in my articile but i know u will need a topic to bluff.
    best of luck…& by the way JF-17 in pakistan service r equipped with KLJ-7radar developed by china.no radar exists with a name KLJ-10 even with china .check out the chinese websites…

  135. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    JF-17 in pakistan service r equipped with KLJ-7radar developed by china.no radar exists with a name KLJ-10 even with china .check out the chinese websites…
    just don’t invent anything by urself………………

  136. krish Says:

    well said tushar………………
    had a bit of fun…………………..
    now paks are no threat for us those loosers are out of the race its the chinks…. now we should get ready to face them

  137. Sun Says:

    Well said Tushar

  138. Sun Says:

    @A Kh…
    ” The people you have been talking to who say Pakistanis are cowards must be BIGGER cowards because they couldnt defeat the Pakistani cowards! :) ahahahaha
    Ask they maha’cowards that belong to the Indian Army if they were wearing churian(bangles) in 1965 and 1971 that they couldnt take over Pakistan with all their might and great Firepower(that you seemed to be soo proud of!).”….

    Well i think that the Indian Army was discreet. If our Army wouldn’t have turned their back on you guys, then Kargil would not have happened, thats for sure , because after all, there is only one army in this world that would send its men to fight alongside terrorists by infiltrating. Moreover, there is only one Army in this entire universe, who would not accept the bodybags of their own men….remember the Northern Light Infantry episode during Kargil…..
    What actually makes us proud of our Army is something that is not worthwhile explaining to u…..

  139. balloney Says:

    This comparison is pure crap. How can you compare the completed project with uncompleted and abandoned project like LCA?

  140. tushar Says:

    where r the pakistanis …….i m waiting…………….

    SAARE JAHAN SE AACHA HINDUSTAN HAMARA.

  141. tushar Says:

    From 2010 onwards SU-30MKI will b equipped with AESA…….
    from 2012 the delivery of 1st squadron of 126 mrca will commence…….it will mostly be MIG-35’s equipped with AESA.

  142. HARSH Says:

    we will see where the jf-17 stands before the lca.the pakistanis should not say that jf-17 is their indigenous ,
    total chinese brain and avionics………….well i will say one thing pakistanis does not have brain to produce weapons
    they purchase every nut and bolt of missiles and aircraft from abroad ……………. conduct a false test before media………………and that musharaf says ………..i congratulate engineers of pakistan………..huh ……..shame……………..THEY CAN NEVER MATCH INDIA…………NEVER…………………NEVER………….

  143. Manish Says:

    No doubt the fighter are of the formidable fire power. But if you look at the developmet of the LCA india the fighter jet from the scratch is being developed by india and is vastly improved in designe and aavionics fronm its first and second prototype. Now with the underpowered engine the IAF has accepted as it has the most advanced avoinics and will have the most competible AESA radar. The problem of the engine will be sorted out, but the present engine can also give the Tejas full performance with reduction in its paload carriyng capacity.
    But the main edge of the Tejas is its avionics and the AESA radar which gives this a/c a comprehensive edge over its rivals. None of Airforces of the pakistan and the china has the aircraft of this potential. This fighter can only be compared with the Typhoon and the Rafle which are almost 5th generatiion fighter jet. India is trying to develop this to a further level of Mk-II Tejas which will be a truley excellent a/c which has no comprise in firepower and the thrust even the most advance radar of all times.

  144. winged Stallion Says:

    @Balloney,
    It seems your knowledge is very limited.
    LCA is neither uncompleted nor abaondoned. We are aiming at seeing a 4.5 Gen plane not refurbishing and upgrading the existatnt Mig 21 to a 3.5 Gen Plane(JF-17).
    We already have a 4th Gen Plane developed in the form of Present LCA, but it is being updated to 4.5 Gen,the target.
    For whomever they say that the project is beyond the expiry date or project is waste, I can describe them in only one word “FOOLS”.

  145. njs Says:

    I like to give this additional details jaihind.
    EL/M-2052
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search
    The Elta 2052 is Advanced Airborne Active Phased array Fire control Radar For Fighter Aircrafts.

    Its suitable for F-15,MiG-29,MIRAGE 2000,LCA Tejas and Su 30.

    Features: Unique characteristics, Full soild State radar, High MTBCF[redundancy], High ECM immunity, Extended detection rages, Multi Target Tracking[64 targets], Simultaneous modes of operation.

    It is said that India’s LCA will be equipped by this Radar

  146. k two Says:

    lol lca hahhahahaha hahhaha big lauugs

    here is websit epl zcheck out to make all of u come out of day dreaming

  147. tushar Says:

    the rcs of LCA is very very less due to the use of composite materials [45%] & radar absorbent paint.Its smaller,lighter,more agile,than a mirage-2000 & F-16.
    its going to b equipped with israel’s AESA radar[EL\M-2052].
    it can b compared with EF-2000,rafale & Gripin NG.

    JF-17 has a full metal airframe.pakistinis don’t even know the meaning of composite materials.Chinese KLJ-7 radar [downgraded version of EL\M-2032].

    U decide which plane will b a sitting duck for BVR & WVR missiles.

  148. Shekar Says:

    India is way Ahead of Pakistan.
    My dear friends I would like to inform you all about one thing. Please for Gods safe do not engage in chat/interaction with Pakis, they are born liars and will not hesitate to stoop to any level to prove their lies. This I am advising because over the years I have monitored things on the net and by personal experience as I travel far and wide. Even other nations do know what a pakistani is even the Arabs are vary of these guys. They do not have ethics and would not mind even to sell their women folk for their religion. Technologically in India is Way ahead and LCA will be a force to reckon with but when it is inducted till then we have to accept that J17 is superior as on today well that is incomparision to LCA only, which is the main topic. For that matter if you talk about the better we do have su’s etc. I think that will do for the time being.

  149. Rameez Says:

    @balloney
    Do u think JF-17 is complete
    it still doesna’t has the radar no avionics or even RD-93 engine supply would be a problem before russian sanctions
    still u feel Joint fart 17 times is complete
    no weaponisation and if a chineese radar is there than forget those sidewinders or pythons etc
    u will have to rely on faulty chineese missiles
    and LCA is weaponised and an all compatiable (Europeon, Russian, american) radar from israel i think it has to be the best. Tejas will get its IOC by 2010 and do u think that ur JF-17 will be inducted by 2015
    and 3.5 – 4 gen tin can in 5 gen time
    pakis are running out of monet and there brain is draining

  150. Rameez Says:

    @ tushar
    the radar is still not finalised
    and a chineese radar is destruction of even a good airframe
    which is the only good thing in JF-17

  151. Bo Says:

    It is unfair to compared JF-17 to LCA. JF-17 is delivered and flying, but LCA is still in the vaporware stage.

  152. Bo Says:

    By the way, I hope LCA will not go the way of Arjun MBT, but it certainly looks that way right now. Whoever is developing the LCA needs to get to work, fast.

  153. Njs Says:

    The radar for JF17 is already finilised ,and in construction the ,chinese offering radar is inferior to elta EL/M-2052 which is to be fixed for LCA . LCA with new engine( not kaveri engine ) will takes time another 2 to 3 yrs , the process is little bit slow. our indian projects or slow but latest. the only good jets the pakis have is f-16. but this f-16 also already locked by our mig29 jets ,while the pakis are near to our indian broder( IAF have the proof ) even though our 2 countries have been seperated we are trying to teessssssssssssss each other. we are originally brothers , so dont allow others (dragons – chinese) to enter in to it .

  154. shan Says:

    tushal (true indian) i don’t think u really are.coz u realy are telling ur county’s arsenal detail very happily…
    and you are right in saying (you or some anohter indian)that LCA tejas shouild not be compared with the JF-17 let me tell u why coz it hasn’t been developed yet..(5th generation) sure why don’t u people keep it in the making for another 30 yrs and then u can also make it 6th generation.
    One should talk on the basis of what they have rather than what they will have.and by the way if we can take IAF jets down by just (anti-aircraft guns and missile like u saw in kargil war) why the hell do we need to snatch the bread from the mouth of poor people (as india does) and spend it to make some 9th 0r 10th generation plane.
    and for your information PAF was not used in Kargil war because pakistan forces were not there in the begining .they were just the freedom fighters…..
    Talking of pilot skill….can someone tell me what is the ratio of MIG-21 crashes there..
    we can easily get ahead in military technology but what’s the point if u can kill a snake with just a stick why would you need a rifle..
    and missile shield some one talking about ….tell me how can they track when coming coz americans shield still can’t figure how to track a real missile and a dummy missile ..
    pakistan policy is very clear minimum deterence …..enough to stop any enemy..

  155. great99 Says:

    @Shaan
    the imformation tushar tells is not top secret it is publicly availabe and you can’t make anything useful of it anyway coz dogs don’t think or understand.

    If you talk of KARGIL war, first of all you need to have plane’s to be shot down wich i fear PAK doesn’t have.
    Secondly, You are dumbass. MMRCA will test flight soon and FRCA will be developed by 2015.
    I remember an incident when a Vietnami Nguan Thi Xuan women shot down a US b12 with just 20 bullets in VIETNAM WAR. So will you say US is weaker than VIETNAM.
    But that doesn’t mean i accept that PAKI shot IAF plane. I guess these are rumors spread by PAK GOV to hide their crushing , staggering,insulting defeats of all INDO – PAK wars. I’m sure.
    3. 21 fleets of LCA are online in service. So mind your tongue.

    For everythin else please vist

    http://www.globalfirepower.com

  156. shan Says:

    @great 99

    Yeah Sure..
    you forgot to mention an IAF pilot captured by pakistan in 1999 who was returned to india ..and what propoganda are u talking about dear kindly explan ..
    yu are talking some 3.21 fleet online..IS that some game you are talking about genius..

  157. great99 Says:

    it is not “3.21″ dear enemy, it is 3) 21 means 3rd point is that in india 21 fleets of LCA are operational. Understand my worthy oponent.

    Don’t talk of POW or i ‘ll start telling you about 95,000 + POW’s we captured of PAK milliatry.
    ( POW= Prisoners of war)

  158. NJS Says:

    The chinese jf-17 radar has already finilised and in production / with 3rd gen cockpit . the engine is RD 3rd series version which india already manufacturing with license from russia for its mig 29 jets, the radar is elta 2032 , india already fixed in mig 21 , so know u can compare the avonics how good it is . it is simply superb avonics , Even f-22 /5 th gen jets also not compared with jf-17 ( ha ha ). My good friend Pakis simply dont compare these old chinese products with LCA , eventhough our LCA as taken such a long time , we accept the project has avonics from other countries ( engine – scnema ) not kaveri , LCA is best in its class. No aircraft is best in world, only thing is, it should have proper groung / radar support . now india is getting Phalcon radar , which is more power than any other in asia , even chinese cannot get it from israel, they already begged to israel but no positive result. The low cost products with reveresed engineering will not make any major effect against India .If u speak about kargil war your terrorist guy’s are fighting better than Pakistan army, its simply superb ( Oh God please save them ,these people’s simply digging for them self ) Dear pakis try to be in peacfull way with indian brothers , then their will be no need for deadly war with others. JAI HIND

  159. nad Says:

    @ G R E A T 99…

    if your tegas are so cool then whats the point in dying for Su-30s and 126 MMRCA..and then FRCA.

    PAK AF will have only JF-17s, F-16s and J-10 to kick indians’ ass. PAK AF is extremely happy with JF – 17s that why they are not looking for things like i mentioned above.

    As for Mr. (then Flt Lt) Nakichita who was PAFs POW, PAF was very happy to interogate him and find out how poorly prepared are the IAF pilots. He was abusing IAF to send him to north on a 2 days’ notice and put him in action. he was so happy in south away from action.
    the other poor Sqn Ldr (MiG-23 Guy didnt survive to tell the story)

    bottom line is ” LCA is a GRAND FAILURE…like other Indain initiatives and time will tell.

  160. NJS Says:

    mr.99
    it shows u does’nt have even basic knowledge also & ( ass also to kick ( it seems to be the world record,guys who dosent have ASS ) ha ha ha. we people know how to speak in decent & undecent way like u.
    Ok let us come to the matter . 1. LCA is a light weight version 2. Su 30 mki (not su30s) : heavy weight version with air superioty. 3 . MMRC 126 jets are medium weight version. we worried Naturally u people dose’nt have that much knowledge . IF JF17 is a better version y dragons dose’nt select it for its airforce. it is selected only JF 10 model only,naturally u people will have some un beliveable answers for this one . Really its a very good entertainment / jokes /stories from pakis. Bye Bye JAI HIND

  161. NJS Says:

    This no : 99 name is selected for NAd . Not to my friend GREAT 99 . do u now old persion language ( the people who is v much interested to kick others ass, we be called NAD 99 )

  162. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    Su-30MKI will b equipped with irbis-e[snow leopard], a high power PESA radar.Its a x-band radar.The Irbis multifunctional radar employs a 900mm passive phased array antenna mounted on a hydraulic actuator. With electronically steering, it can scan sectors of 60 degrees in both azimuth and elevation. Using the hydraulic actuator (mechanical steering), the azimuth coverage boosts to 120 degrees. It can detect and track up to 30 airborne targets with a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of three square meters at ranges of 400 kilometers using track-while-scan mode while engaging two targets with semi-active radar homing missiles or up to eight targets with active radar homing missiles. In the air-to-surface mode the Irbis provides clues allowing to attack a surface target with precision-guided weapons while scanning the horizon searching for airborne threats that can be engaged using active radar homing missiles.

    Tikhomirov NIIP has provided the ability to spot super-low-observable targets with RCS = 0.01 square meters at ranges out to 90 kilometers. This capability might allow Su-35 aircraft to engage cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles as well as fifth generation stealth fighter aircrafts such as the F/A-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II.

    U can compare the performance of this PESA Radar with other AESA radars. a sensible guy will understand wat i mean 2 say.

  163. nad Says:

    @ Tushar-[a true Indian]

    Thanx a lot on your info about Su – 30 MKI and Su – 35 … but here we are talking about JF- 17 and LCA !

    what will happen to LCA in future if you so heavily rely on Su-30s …?

  164. NJS Says:

    LCA as bright future , LCA is already in production with IN20 Engine which is already supplied from USA nearly 40 nos to HAL . its prototype type version is fixed with f2j3 version engine supplied from GE of USA
    for further production the engines will be supplied from snecma of france ,it already won the contract to supply engines to india. almost 210 nos of LCA jets are planned to be manufactured. some main avonics are Astra BVR air to air, elta EL/M-2052 Radar,4th generation cockpit, it can carry all the weapons which su 30 can carries ,except bramos pj10 ( only heavy weight catagory jets can carry pj10 ), and it can carry russian/france/Israel avonics ,it is more than enough for light weight version ( 4 + gen ). in future it is planned to have python short range air to air missile in LCA / Su30/ mirage. this python 4th/5th gene is highly capable missile in world,which is manufactured by israel . Even America has ordered Python 5 for its airforce for it’s f-16 jets ( this is the first time usa have purchased defense item’s from orther country ) . even china has older version of python 3 which is planned for its j10 . every one knows j10 is better than jf17. The j10 is a copied version from israel’s fighter project. dragons have more manpower / financial power & heavy engineering , but i wonder why they fully depending on their spy . bye bye JAI HIND

  165. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad

    ya i know……..

    JF-17 is a 3.5 or somewhat closer to 4th generation fighter.

    talk about the radar…….

    JF-17 will b equiped with chinese KLJ-7 or the italian grifo S-7.S-7 is the copy of elta EL\M-2032 but is less capable than EL\M-2032.Italian radar[S-7] lacks the capability of multi-target tracking and engagement via semi active radar homing air to air missiles.it is capable of tracking 8 and engaging only 1.KLJ-7 is somewhat less capable or equal to S-7.

    But lca will b equipped with indian made MMR [multi mode radar] whose performance is a little better than EL\M-2032.
    Infact india is now going in for EL\M-2052 an AESA radar.It will b installed on production variants & will contain the indian developed sub systems as well which will enhance its performance.

    @ nad
    scroll up & read my article in which i’ve compared the 2 fighters.
    the point which is missing in that article is of AESA radar,i’ve mentioned it now.

    now its upto u to decide which aircraft is better.

    and ur comment on SU-30MKI

    SU-30mki is a different class of fighter.
    u can’t compare it with LCA.
    LCA & SU-30MKI will continue to evolve further.
    both r meant for different roles.

  166. nad Says:

    @ Tushar-[a true Indian]
    Oh !!! i didnt know we are writing articles here or sharing thoughts in a forum?

    anyway, my point was, this forum is about JF-17 and Teja. By the way what you are trying to make of JF-17 AI Radar is too less capable that what it is in actual. The capabilities you are talking about is even not as much as Grifo M III of modified Mirage IIIs, which is a tru track while scan AI.

    And to all Indians ( that includes “GREAT 69″ or what ever!!!) who think they have done a good job by acquiring Su-30 … remember PAF is buying J-10 … which is going to give a nice time to whole IAF. Interestingly Block 52 F-16s will give nightmare to IAF.

    For those who think size of airforce matters Like 4th Vs 22…you can climb the pole … Israel has a small AF … but capable .. PAF is LEAN and EFFICIANT; given the results of all previous encounters, where would IAF bring pilots from? even Russians said for IAF pilots ” if you have monkeys sitting in cockpits what can we do…obviously F-86 would shoot down Mig-21 (IAF Su-30 in those times) … so PAF relies a lot on Dumb IAF pilots and the same PAF is gonna do with IAF in future. It should horrify Indians if JF-17 kicks Su-30 out of the skies … PAF is quite confident … given we eat meat and have killer instinct which a vegetarian cannot have !

    Does IAF as yet successfully launched ALCM (Brahmos or else) which has already become quite mature in PAF (remember RA’AD or Hataf VIII)

    Pakistan is producing its own MBTs ( Al-Khalid and Al-Zarrar) and it is PROUDLY Producing Agusta 90B in Pakistan.

    Why India is buying 6 C-130Js and Showing intent for 126 MMRCA from possibly US … India had a history of buying things from former USSR … now they are looking at USA … you guys have already doomed USSR and now you are getting close to USA …they are doomed (economics Crisis there) “Bhagwaan ki kirpa say”

    Pakistan is with USA and they become sole super power and since we are with china they have become economic giants. “With the Grace of Almighty Lord”

    Keep trying to present bollywood’s soft power by “Miss Indias” to the rest of the world; we don’t have any thing to match your cultural nudity.

  167. NJS Says:

    To, The editor
    I have submitted my comments in this foram , but it is not displayed.

  168. nad Says:

    @ “GREAT 69 or whatever”

    PAF is using Composite material since 1982…which means 26 years now. You indian are getting your hands on it now. Plz dont tell us about it. Our engineers are master of using it in whereever we can … yours is yet to be a success/proven.

    Interestingly you guys are buying equipement in billions of dollars from Russia and 50 50 partnership in Russias future Stealth aircraft +Aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov. On the other hand buying C-130 J. 126 MMRCA from USA and not to mention nuclear power plant from there too. WOW its called real hindu politics … my freinds you guys are in deep shit with russia getting away from USA and USA getting mad at Russia. So the point is you will not succeed riding in 2 boats at one time…69.

  169. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    IAF was the 1st non Nato Air force 2 b invited 2 red flag -2008.
    An us air force pilot gets 250 hrs flight training per year & after that IAF pilot gets 242 hrs flight training per year.USAF ranks 1st & IAF ranks 2nd in flight training hrs.
    J-10 is nothing but chinese version of SU-27 with less capable radar & avionics. SU-30MKI is much more advanced than
    SU – 27 / J-10. SU-30MKI has PESA radar & 3d TVC, Rcs is less than 5 m^ due to special RAM coating,2 pilot crew which reduces pilot stress, it is the only aircraft with rearward facing radar.it is the only fighter in the world which can carry cruise missiles.IT has the capability 2 data link.A single SU-30MKI can wash out 2-3 JF-17’s within minutes.production variant of LCA will b equipped with AESA.The induction of Arjun MBT has already commenced.it’s accuracy is superior than T-90S.
    In submarines IN is inducting Scorpeane subs which r superior 2 Agusta-90B.Pak navy will have 3 Agusta-90B whereas IN will get 6 Scorpeane & is issuing tender for 6 more subs[U214,Amur] r main contenders. The indigenious
    nuclear submarine[ATV] will b inducted in 2009.India will have 3 ATV’s before 2015.It is capable of carrying ballastic[K-15] as well as cruise missiles[Brahmos ,klub series & under development Nirbhay ]. it is a SSBN.
    And what about india’s ALH?its already inducted in all the 3 services.army has 80+,air force has 30 & navy has 15+.
    And LCH will b ready for induction from 2010.
    ASTRA active air to air missile[85 kms range].
    Ballastic missile defence system ,PAD & AAD have already been successfully tested twice.Akash SAM has been inducted.Pakistan’s air defence is not even 10% compared to India’s.

  170. nad Says:

    @ Tushar-[a true Indian]

    My Dear Great 69’s friend … u didnt read my post carefully … u are not producing Subs ! we have 8 in plan 3rd is already AIP ( i hope u know) Air Ind. propulsion. we are already using our own manufactured MBTs. and even our Mirages are launcing Cruise Missile every 3-4 months. come on you didnt noticed what i was saying … all u guys ahve is plansssss. we have all these up and running and running good.

    If u read my post correctly u would be disappointed and I will be happy to realize, there are 2 pilots in Su-30 cockpit…..means 2 monks. twice as Dumbos….WOW, i luv that…

    PAF has been going to Exercise every where ,,,even at Nellis… there is not much there … u vegeterian will not change with Exercise or 242 hours in an year … Great69s friend, its not the quantity its quality … and for your knowledge J-10 in not any Su … its on LAVI (if u know) the Isreali project which China bought.

    As for your projects they are also ( bhagwan ki kirpa say) plagued with your monkey pilots’ performance …the list is long but to name a few recent ones..1). HJT-36 destryed, off the runway . . . wg cdr fired. 2). HS 748 AEW first aircraft (prototype) Crashed … prgg’me shelved … first Hawk trainer to land in India … again crashed… good begining !!!
    How would your below average pilots will operate “so Called” Russian Hi-tech.?????
    USAF is not interested to fly with u … its only they want to know more about Su-s… and thats it…just in case … after they are thru they would not even like to kick in ur ass.

  171. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    ya …J-10 is a modified LAVI……….J-11 is a copy of SU-27.

    LAVI …..ITS just s modified F-16,
    infact the design of J-10 is similar to F-16

  172. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad

    talk abt the air defence……….

    nuclear subs[ATV]…….

    Ballastic missile defence…..india is only the 4th country in the world to possess this technology after US, RUSSIA & ISREAL.

    BRAHMOS [PJ-10] is a nightmare for any ship…….it travels at a speed of 2.8 mach

    India has developed & is using advanced sonars .

    & all the scorpeane’s will me manufactured in india itself.

    the world knows the quality of chinese products……….
    it can b defined as duplicate,useless & cheap…..just for show up…..[mobiles, electronics .......etc etc]

  173. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad

    And what about india’s ALH?its already inducted in all the 3 services.army has 80+,air force has 30 & navy has 15+.
    And LCH will b ready for induction from 2010.
    ASTRA active air to air missile[85 kms range].
    Ballastic missile defence system ,PAD & AAD have already been successfully tested twice.Akash SAM has been inducted.Pakistan’s air defence is not even 10% compared to India’s.

    comment on this……..

  174. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    dont boast on UR BABUR cruise missile………….it’s been purchased from ukriane & given a pakistani tag

  175. nad Says:

    @ Tushar-[a true Indian]
    Mirages are launcing Cruise Missile every 3-4 months. mr. tash. i am talking here about RA’AD not babur ! u guys ahve nothing to match it. as for Subs … again they will be …. oh give me a break…. we all know about indian products… they can do only one thing …and that is “FAIL”… like HF-24 “Marut”

    2 pilots in Su-30 cockpit…..means 2 monks. twice as Dumbos….WOW, i luv that…Any comments here ? and following :-
    …..to name a few recent ones..1). HJT-36 destryed, off the runway . . . wg cdr fired. 2). HS 748 AEW first aircraft (prototype) Crashed … prgg’me shelved … first Hawk trainer to land in India … again crashed… good begining !!!
    How would your below average pilots will operate “so Called” Russian Hi-tech.?????

    i think you are one of those sitting whole nite in front of a PC in a call center replying in your typical indian accent to US queries about their lost baggage or plumbing probs… u have got time …i am busy…but just incase if u ‘ve answers to above … go ahead have a go…

  176. Ronin Says:

    Well, its totally useless to argue with the Pakistani guys lurking in this forum. The main problem is that the pakistani media is strictly regulated by the government, which was under the martial law until recently. Even with the democratic govt the army’s influence is still overwhelming in the country (rememeber the Musharaf’s coup to overthrow Sharif? thats the kind of influence the Pak army enjoys). So the media is in any case suppressed there. So ppl there get to know what the govt (i.e. the army) want them to know. and by the simplest of logic, I dont think the army will let the media publish any info about its shortcomings. Hence, the people of pakistan will always see the picture that the pak army is showing them. and to the gr8set surprise, they dont even accept the neutral sources of info !!!
    On the contrary, indian media has uncomparable freedom. The indian army is also an independent unit from the govt. I havent heard of martial rule in India yet and cant forsee one in this century…
    So lets not call the pakistani people ignorant… its not their fault. Its the govt & the army thats playing with the limited intelligence of the pakistani people. Rather than getting into a verbal conflict, try to have some sympathy for the poor chaps… ;-)

  177. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    u’ll come to know the lethality of the ATV when u get a dose of it………….

    mirage launching cruise missiles ?

    link pls

    & don’t forget the IN’s new MIG-29K’s……..

  178. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    HJT-36 will b inducted within a year…………….

    india has already signed deal with brazil for Embraer ERJ -145 jets which will b the carrier for indian awacs which will b inducted in 2011-2012.

  179. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad
    and answer my above question 1st…….if u have any ans for it

  180. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad

    talk abt the air defence……….

    nuclear subs[ATV]…….

    Ballastic missile defence…..india is only the 4th country in the world to possess this technology after US, RUSSIA & ISREAL.

    BRAHMOS [PJ-10] is a nightmare for any ship…….it travels at a speed of 2.8 mach

    India has developed & is using advanced sonars .

    & all the scorpeane’s will me manufactured in india itself.

    the world knows the quality of chinese products……….
    it can b defined as duplicate,useless & cheap…..just for show up…..[mobiles, electronics .......etc etc]

    any answers NAD?

  181. nad Says:

    Mr. Tushar-[a true Indian] …

    I feel pitty on your poor knowledge.

    Air defence …you dont know what “air Defence” is …it is sensors and weapons … PAF has fully automated CRCs from 1977 by Germany … which is upgraded in 2000 overlapping low and medium and hi level coverage, which will not miss a bird coming from you folks. Whereas in sensors IAF has primitive manual plotting system whom they call Semi-automatic. Weapons … you have no idea what Pakistan has… just to cut the long story short … you dont even know about solid propellent ICBM which we have and I will tell u the name of it latter.

    If you dont know which Cruise Missile Mirages are launcing, its your fault not mine. If you were smart enough you could have Googled it, but u don’t get the point here …like u your pilots are also dumd asses … i will give u the links … actually they are so many … i will give u a couple of good ones becoz i think u like to improve your knowldge. which will be good for u.
    See ….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra’ad
    OR
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx9mFWGRht0

    And all all are talking about ATV etc … is to be proven when and ever it makes a success in future . Indian MBT, LCA and trainers are already a failure … b’coz if it was not you will never buy Fighters (Su-30…MMRCA…MiG-29K etc.)and trainers (Hawks) from outside. So every thing u talk about is 2012 or onwards.. means future … talk about what do u have today? PAF is flying JF-17 in Squadron operationally.

    As for china … my dear … they are the biggest industry in the world and are producing quality products. You will be surprised in future. They have already stopped producing Su-27/30s becoz of reliability problems … it doesnt want to go in air mostly…now they are persuing J-10 … and JXX( plz google it) and J-10 is F-16 ..oh my God u have no idea … its aTyphoon class Fighter .. thats why china is preferring it over Su-30s. so beware of it.. PAF is getting it.

    for your satisfaction i can tell u about our AD systems .. which are operational and by far better than yours… this unclassified and i cant tell u more b’coz of classified know’dge:-

    Hatf-I/IA (BRBM) Hatf-I/IA 80/100 km 500 kg Deployed 100+

    Abdali (SRBM) Hatf-II 180 km 500 kg Deployed, Under production Unknown

    Ghaznavi (SRBM) Hatf-III 290 km 500 kg Deployed, Under production ~100+

    Shaheen-I (MRBM) Hatf-IV 750 km 750 kg Deployed, Under production ~75-150

    Ghauri-I (MRBM) Hatf-V 1500 km 700-1000 kg Deployed, Under production ~10+

    Ghauri-II (MRBM) Hatf-VA 2,400 km, More range with lighter payload. 1200 kg Operational, Under production ~10+

    Shaheen-II (IRBM) Hatf-VI 2,500 km, More range with lighter payload. 1000+ kg Deployed, Under production 20+
    Babur (Cruise Missile) Hatf-VII 700 km 500 kg Deployed

    Ra’ad (Air Launched Cruise Missile) Hatf-VIII 350 km Tested twice
    M-11 (SRBM) 300 km 500 kg In service

    EAT THIS Tushar….I hope u will have a sound sleep now

  182. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    hello……………….nad

    i think u don’t have any answers for my questions ……….

  183. nad Says:

    u r not reading to my post… your answers are there.

    Indian forces are no good…we r not impressed at all

    I hope u have seen the links I have given and improved your knowledge on everything; sp’ly Mirages lunching Cruise missiles !!!

  184. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    the equipment which the IAF , IN & army possess cannot b compared wit Low quality,useless equipment of pak forces………v have proved this in 1965,1971 & 1999

  185. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad

    mirage III firing cruise missiles?………..LINK PLEASE

  186. nad Says:

    I think you have not read OR you cannot read. Please lookup at my above post where I have already putup these links ” Mirage launching Cruise Missiles”

    I hope u will get a sound sleep.
    See ….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra’ad
    OR
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx9mFWGRht0

    Your Air Defence is crappy P-15, P-18 and other shit stuff . We are automated … We have Quality like … F-16s, Mirages, P3C, Atlantiques, Agustas etc.

    you have all Russian Low quality Stuff …even Su-30s and MiG-29…totally unreliable…which doesnt want to up in the air…

  187. chiragcvp Says:

    my all dear friends…

    all this discussion is just waste of time.

    if we want to compare the india to its neigbour contries than only china is the option and not pakistan.

    pak is out of threat to india as far as the war is concirned.(except terrorist activities)

    even our authorities are developing nd purchasing the weapons with view point of china nd not pak.

    pak is nt comparable to india at any issue toodate so why to
    chat abt this things. let this fool remain in their dreams(those wil bcome nightmare soon)

    i have pride for my india bcoz it is really a emerging world power.

    jayhind…..

  188. razpor Says:

    first of all you ppl must understand that lca will not be serving IAF as a main line aircraft but it will only serve as in numbers and give india an edge to build other projects like mca ,pak-fa(with russia)which will be at par or even above f-22.these will be the fighters which will serve as the main line fighters to india in the coming years .

    Whereas jf-17 will serve as a main line fighter aircraft for pakistan in the coming years.So having a few jf-17 doesnt give india any threats as india’s only concern is just t6o be able to develop better aircrafts and not just lca.
    Whereas india has many projects which have been approved by the government such as MCA ,pak fa and many more…pakistan have better plans than jf-17 or j-10,
    for which they will have to rely on China,who on the contrary side are not even using jf-17 as their main fighter but su-mkks and other russian fighters.

  189. nad Says:

    Mr. Tushar-[a true Indian] …

    I feel pitty on your poor knowledge.

    Air defence …you dont know what “air Defence” is …it is sensors and weapons … PAF has fully automated CRCs from 1977 by Germany … which is upgraded in 2000 overlapping low and medium and hi level coverage, which will not miss a bird coming from you folks. Whereas in sensors IAF has primitive manual plotting system whom they call Semi-automatic. Weapons … you have no idea what Pakistan has… just to cut the long story short … you dont even know about solid propellent ICBM which we have and I will tell u the name of it latter.

    If you dont know which Cruise Missile Mirages are launcing, its your fault not mine. If you were smart enough you could have Googled it, but u don’t get the point here …like u your pilots are also d.u.m.d a.s.s.e.s … i will give u the links … actually they are so many … i will give u a couple of good ones becoz i think u like to improve your knowldge. which will be good for u.
    See ….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra’ad
    OR
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx9mFWGRht0

    And all all are talking about ATV etc … is to be proven when and ever it makes a success in future . Indian MBT, LCA and trainers are already a failure … b’coz if it was not you will never buy Fighters (Su-30…MMRCA…MiG-29K etc.)and trainers (Hawks) from outside. So every thing u talk about is 2012 or onwards.. means future … talk about what do u have today? PAF is flying JF-17 in Squadron operationally.

    As for china … my dear … they are the biggest industry in the world and are producing quality products. You will be surprised in future. They have already stopped producing Su-27/30s becoz of reliability problems … it doesnt want to go in air mostly…now they are persuing J-10 … and JXX( plz google it) and J-10 is F-16 ..oh my God u have no idea … its a Typhoon class Fighter .. thats why china is preferring it over Su-30s. so beware of it.. PAF is getting it.

    for your satisfaction I can tell u about our AD systems .. which are operational and by far better than yours… this unclassified and i cant tell u more b’coz of classified know’dge:-

    Hatf-I/IA (BRBM) Hatf-I/IA 80/100 km 500 kg Deployed 100+

    Abdali (SRBM) Hatf-II 180 km 500 kg Deployed, Under production Unknown

    Ghaznavi (SRBM) Hatf-III 290 km 500 kg Deployed, Under production ~100+

    Shaheen-I (MRBM) Hatf-IV 750 km 750 kg Deployed, Under production ~75-150

    Ghauri-I (MRBM) Hatf-V 1500 km 700-1000 kg Deployed, Under production ~10+

    Ghauri-II (MRBM) Hatf-VA 2,400 km, More range with lighter payload. 1200 kg Operational, Under production ~10+

    Shaheen-II (IRBM) Hatf-VI 2,500 km, More range with lighter payload. 1000+ kg Deployed, Under production 20+
    Babur (Cruise Missile) Hatf-VII 700 km 500 kg Deployed

    Ra’ad (Air Launched Cruise Missile) Hatf-VIII 350 km Tested twice
    M-11 (SRBM) 300 km 500 kg In service

    EAT THIS Tushar….I hope u will have a sound sleep now

  190. nad Says:

    think you have not read OR you cannot read. Please lookup at my above post where I have already putup these links ” Mirage launching Cruise Missiles”

    I hope u will get a sound sleep.
    See ….http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra’ad
    OR
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx9mFWGRht0

    Your Air Defence is crappy P-15, P-18 and other s.h.i.t. stuff . We are automated … We have Quality like … F-16s, Mirages, P3C, Atlantiques, Agustas etc.

    you have all Russian Low quality Stuff …even Su-30s and MiG-29…totally unreliable…which doesnt want to up in the air…

  191. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad.

    do u know the difference between SAM & ballastic missile ?

    let the pakistanis develop a number of ballistic missiles or be it cruise missiles but they will be nearly useless in another in another 4-5 years[2012-2013]when india deploys its indigious missile defence shield ,the PAD & AAD have already been successfully tested.[PAD in 2006 & AAD in 2007].PAD is an exo- atmospheric with maximum interception altitude of 80 kms.AAD is an endo-atmospheric with maximum interception altitude of 30 kms.india has also initiated the induction of AKASH SAM system with a range of 25 kms and max altitude of 16000mts.surveillance sensor(3 D CAR) is capable of detecting and tracking aerial targets upto a range of 150kms and altitude of 18 kms. rajendra radar mkII has dection range of 60 kms and has the capibility to guide 8 missiles at 4 targets simultaneously.indian airforce is also acquiring 18 SPYDAR sam systems from israel.india & israel are jointly developing medium range sam syatem named BARAK-II with a range of 60-65 kms and will be inducted into between 2012-2014.india is also developing low level quick reaction missile[LLQRM] with MBDA named MAITRI.pakistan air defence consists of crotale-2000/3000[range 11kms & attitude 6000m][25 launchers],SA-2[range 20 kms & altitude 18000mts][32 launchers] which are outdated and are currently being phased out,RBS-70[MANPAD], FIM-92stinger[MANPAD] and some anti aircraft guns.
    compared to indian air defence,pakistan air defence systems are not even 25% of what india possess.
    SA-3,SA-8,SA-6,SA-12,SA-9,SA-7[MANPAD]
    SA-10,SA-16[MANPAD],IGLA[MANPAD],AKASH.
    checkout: http://globalfirepower.com/list_missile_defense.asp
    india-7175 .
    pak-2100.

    india will get 3 PHALCON AWACS in 2009 & 3 more will be ordered & will the indian airforce in 2012.phalcon is much more advanced than the saab awacs ordered by pakistan.

    lets talk about the navy…….

    pakistan is boasting on AUGASTA 90B,but the indian navy has already ordered the SCORPENE subs which r superior in performance than the AUGASTA 90B & will b inducted into the indian navy from 2011-2012 onwards.pakistan has 3 AUGASTA 90B subs and india has ordered 6 SCORPENE subs & is even looking out for another 6.indain navy 2day operates 16 subs & pakistan has only 7-8 subs.wat abt the indian nuclear ATV?does pakistan have any ans to this sub.
    the first will b inducted at the end 0f 2009 or early 2010.construction of 2nd one is also underway.initally K-15 missiles [range 750 kms]successfully tested trice, will b installed on the ATV’s,sub launch version of AGNI-3[range 3500kms]is being developed & is in the advanced stage of development & is scheduled to b tested in early 2009.even nirbhay cruise missile [range 1000 kms]is in last stage of development & will b tested in late 2008.BRAHMOS[range 290 kms ,speed mach 2.8(1st of its kind in the world)] will b deployed on ATV ’s as an anti ship weapon & the land attack version has also been developed and currently being tested[navy version]& is in final stage.land attack version[army version] of BRAHMOS has already been inducted.no ship in the world can defend itself from BRAHMOS.BRAHMOS-2,an hypersonic version is under development.it is the 1st supersonic cruise missile in the world.indian navy combat fleet consists of 145 ships & pakistan navy combat fleet is only 35.in 2012-2013 indian navy will operate 3 aircraft carriers.pakistan navy can not afford even to think of an aircraft carrier as pakistan cannot handle even the maintainance of even 1 aircraft carrier.the future indian navy carriers will operate advanced MIG-29k & LCA fighters.even K-15 can hit karachi.
    india is also prepared to lease 2 AKULA-II subs & will join indian navy mostly in oct 2008.india also has a option when purchase this subs when the lease is complete.AKULA-II will b armed with 3M-54Klub nuclear capable missiles.india has also built indigious stealth frigates [shivalik class]3 will enter service in 2009.9 more of this ships will b built in separate batches.3 talwar class stealth frigates have alredy been inducted into the indian navy & 3 more advanced talwar class stealth frigated will b inducted in 2012.
    indian navy is 1 of the best navies of the world.

    1.- To counter the threat of pakistans F-7
    india has MIG 21 bisons
    2.-To counter the threat of pakistans F-16 & mirage III&V
    india has MIG-29.

    3.-the pak F-16 are capable of giving a fight for indian
    MIRAGE-2000H,JAGUAR,MIG-27,but does pakistan has any answer for the indian SU-30MKI? even the JF-17 does not stand a chance against the SU-30MKI………
    pakistan even needs to think about the LCA…
    SU-30MKI have already been inducted & india is operating nearly 60 SU-30MKI & 30 SU-30K\MK.before 2014 IAF will operate 230 SU-30MKI.once the induction of LCA commences from 2010,pakistan wont even have time to react.SU-30MKI & LCA along with MIG-29 will rule the sky.

    the rcs of LCA is very very less due to the use of composite materials [45%] & radar absorbent paint.Its smaller,lighter,more agile,than a mirage-2000 & F-16.
    its going to b equipped with israel’s AESA radar[EL\M-2052].
    it can b compared with EF-2000,rafale & Gripin NG.

    JF-17 has a full metal airframe.pakistinis don’t even know the meaning of composite materials.Chinese KLJ-7 radar [downgraded version of EL\M-2032].

    U decide which plane will b a sitting duck for BVR & WVR missiles.

  192. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad………..

    if u had a very capable Air force,navy & army……..how come u lost 1971 war ? our army had reached ravalpandi …….what were your defence forces doing at that time?……we cut pakistan into 2 parts like a birthday cake……haha haha…..

    now dont say it was in 1971……….

    and how can i forget 1999 kargil………..your forces were kicked out from the mountains….
    were were your F-16’s that time……?
    pallu me chupe thai kya……..?

    you must be knowing about this incident-
    IAF MiG-29s armed with beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missiles were able to lock on to PAF F-16s, forcing the F-16’s to disengage.
    DARPUK.

    Now we have SU-30MKI……

    On August 10, 1999, a Pakistan Navy French-built naval Breguet Atlantic was flying over the Rann of Kutch area and was shot down by two IAF MiG-21 jets killing all 16 aboard.

    Pak just begs for missile designs from N.korea,china or ukriane. the only thing which it does is to rename the missiles.

  193. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad………..

    here are some instances that prove your cowardness ……

    if u had a very capable Air force,navy & army……..how come u lost 1971 war ? our army had reached ravalpandi …….what were your defence forces doing at that time?……we cut pakistan into 2 parts like a birthday cake……haha haha…..

    now dont say it was in 1971……….

    and how can i forget 1999 kargil………..your forces were kicked out from the mountains….
    were were your F-16’s that time……?
    pallu me chupe thai kya……..?

    you must be knowing about this incident-
    IAF MiG-29s armed with beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air missiles were able to lock on to PAF F-16s, forcing the F-16’s to disengage.
    DARPUK.

    Now we have SU-30MKI……

    On August 10, 1999, a Pakistan Navy French-built naval Breguet Atlantic was flying over the Rann of Kutch area and was shot down by two IAF MiG-21 jets killing all 16 aboard.

    Pak just begs for missile designs from N.korea,china or ukriane. the only thing which it does is to rename the missiles.

  194. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    about thr radars developed by india…………….
    the induction rate is 100%.

    The INDRA series of 2D radars meant for Army and Air Force use. Indra, stands for the “Indian Doppler Radar”.These are basically 2D radars which provide range, and azimuth information, and are meant to be used as gapfillers. The Indra 2 PC has pulse compression providing improved range resolution.

    The 3D Rajendra fire control radar for the Akash SAM: Whilst Blocks 1 and 2 are ready, and being used for trials, an improved Block 3 has now been revealed. The Rajendra Block 3 is stated to be ready and is being used for trials.
    The Rajendra is a high power, Passive electronically scanned array radar, able to guide up to 12 Akash SARH SAM’s against aircraft flying at low to medium altitudes. The Block III has a detection range of 80 km with 18 km height coverage against small fighter sized targets and is able to track 64 of them, engaging 4 simultaneously, with up to 3 missiles per target. The Rajendra features a fully digital high speed signal processing system with adaptive moving target indicator, coherent signal processing, FFTs, and variable pulse repetition frequency. The Radar comprises surveillance antenna array with 4000 elements operating in the G/H-Band (4-8 GHz), an engagement antenna array with another 1000 elements operating in the I/J-Band (8-20 GHz) for command guidance, a 16-element IFF array and steering.The Block III is substantially different from the earlier blocks in that its fielded on a T-72 chassis instead of a BMP, and its entire PESA antenna array can now swivel 360 degrees on a rotating platform. This allows the radar antenna to be rapidly repositioned, and even conduct all round surveillance.

    The 3D medium range Central Acquisition Radar, a state of the art planar array, S Band radar operating on the stacked beam principle. With a range of 180 km against fighter sized targets, it can track while scan 200 of them. Its systems are integrated on high mobility, locally built TATRA trucks for the Army and Air Force; however the CAR design is meant to be used by all three services.The CAR has been a significant success for radar development in India, with its state of the art signal processing hardware. The order for 9 ROHINI radars by the IAF is worth Rs 360 crores, or approximately 81 million USD at 2006 prices.The ROHINI is the IAF specific variant while the REVATHI is the Indian Navy specific variant. The ROHINI has a more advanced Indian developed antenna in terms of power handling and beamforming technology compared to the 3D CAR while the REVATHI adds two axis stabilisation for operation in naval conditions, as well as extra naval modes.

    The 2D [[BFSR-SR]], a short range Battle Field Surveillance Radar, meant to be manportable. 1176 have been ordered by the Army from BEL and it is being exported as well.100 radars will be exported to Indonesia.The radar continues to progress further in terms of integration, with newer variants being integrated with thermal imagers for visually tracking targets detected by the radar.

    The 3D airborne Super Vision-2000 naval surveillance radar, meant for helicopters and light transport aircraft. The SV-2000 is a lightweight (approximately 100 kg), yet high performance, slotted array radar operating in the X Band. It can detect sea-surface targets such as a periscope or a vessel, against heavy clutter, and can also be used for navigation, weather mapping and beacon detection. The radar can detect a large vessel at over 100 nautical miles (370 km). The SV-2000s design has been accepted by the Navy and it is currently under modification to be fitted to the Advanced Light Helicopter, and the Navy’s Do-228’s. Variants can be fitted to the Navy’s Ka-25’s as well.

    The 3D AESA Long Range Tracking Radar: The LRTR was developed with assistance from Elta of Israel, and is similar to Elta’s proven GreenPine long range Active Array radar. The DRDO developed the signal processing and software for tracking high speed ballistic missile targets as well as introduced more ruggedization. The radar uses mostly Indian designed and manufactured components such as its critical high power, L Band Transmit-Receive modules plus the other enabling technologies necessary for active phased array radars. In 2004, DRDO noted that its LRTR could track 200 targets and had a range of above 400 km. In 2006, more details emerged; the LRTR could detect targets as far away as 500 km and beyond, including Intermediate Range Ballistic Missiles, and that India now had the capability to manufacture these radars on its own.LRTR would be amongst the key elements of the Indian ABM system.

    he 3D Multi Function Control Radar: A substantial project by itself, the MFCR was developed as part of the Indian anti-ballistic missile program in cooperation with THALES of France. The MFCR is an active phased array radar and complements the Long Range Tracking Radar, for intercepting ballistic missiles. The MFCR will also serve as the fire control radar for the AAD second tier missile system of the ABM program. The AAD has a supplementary role against aircraft as well, and is to engage missiles and aircraft up to an altitude of 30 km. The MFCR fills out the final part of the DRDO’s radar development spectrum, and allows India to manufacture long range 3D radars that can act as the nodes of an Air Defence Ground Environment system. As with the LRTR, the MFCR was used successfully in India’s BMD interception effort.

    The 2D Low Level Lightweight Radar(LLLR) for the Army, which require many of these units for gapfilling in mountainous terrain. The Indian Air Force will also acquire the same for key airbases. The LLLR is a 2D radar with a range of 40 km against a 2Sq Mtr target, intended as a gapfiller to plug detection gaps versus low level aircraft in an integrated Air Defence Ground network. The LLLR makes use of Indra-2 technology, namely a similar antenna array, but has roughly half the range and is much smaller and a far more portable unit. The Indra 2 is vehicle deployed and has a larger logistical footprint. Named the “Bharani”, the LLLR can track while scan 100 targets and provide details about their speed, azimuth and range to the operator. The LLLR makes use of the BFSR-SR experience and many of the subsystem providers are the same. Multiple LLLRs can be netted together. The LLLR is meant to act as a tripwire against low level intruders, and will alert Army Air Defence fire control units (which use Bharat Electronics manufactured Improved Reporter 3D radars) to cue their weapon systems. A 3D LLLR has also been revealed in 2008, with a system displayed at Defexpo 2008, at New Delhi.

  195. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    hey nad , it’s time for u 2 start bluffing……..

  196. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    Apart from the above radar’s, the DRDO has also several other radar systems currently under development or in trials, these include:

    The 3D Weapon Locating Radar: Successfully developed from the Rajendra fire control radar for the Akash system, this radar uses a passive electronically scanned array to detect multiple targets for fire correction and weapon location. The system has been developed and demonstrated to the Army and orders have been placed upon BEL to gear up for series manufacture of 28 of these radars. It is currently in the penultimate series of user trials to fine tune its features. Concurrent engineering has been adopted to save money and time. In terms of performance, the WLR is stated to be superior to the AN/TPQ-37, several of which were imported by India as an interim system while the WLR got ready.

    The 3D Multi-mode radar, a HAL project of which DRDO is a subsystem provider, this project to develop an advanced, lightweight Multimode fire control radar for the LCA Tejas fighter, has faced stiff challenges and been struck by delay. Help has been sought from other R&D organizations, manufacturers to bring it to fruition. The multimode radar is a greater than 100 km range (detection of a small fighter target), 10 target track, two target engage, lightweight system with an all-up weight of only 130 kg. At the Aero India Trade fair in 2007, it was revealed that an all new combined signal and data processor had been developed, replacing the original separate units.

    A 3D Active Phased Array radar for aircraft, a follow on to the MMR project, the APAR project aims to field the technologies necessary for a full active phased array fire control radar for fighter aircraft. While the DRDO has achieved a significant presence in the ground based radar segment with a variety of systems, it is now targeting the airborne segment to achieve similar results.

    Synthetic Aperture & Inverse Synthetic Aperture radars: The DRDO’s LRDE is currently working on both SAR and ISAR radars for target detection and classification. These lightweight payloads are intended for both conventional fixed wing, as well as Unmanned Aerial Vehicle applications. Initial prototypes have been built and the test results have been encouraging.

    A new 3D Airborne Warning and Control based on Active Electronically Scanned Array radar technology developed by the DRDO. This project was launched in 2005 for the Indian Air Force which has signed up for three AEW &C systems to begin with and with more thereafter. The design plus the first system is to be certified by 2010 and the rest delivered by 2012-14. Further orders are likely, either based on the existing design or more capable derivatives built for a larger platform such as the Boeing 737. The aim of the project is to develop inhouse capability for high power AEW&C systems, with the system covering the development of a S Band AESA array. The AEW&C aircraft platform has been reported to be Brazil’s Embraer EMB-145. The aircraft will also have DRDO developed datalinks to link fighters plus communicate with the IAF’s C3I infrastructure, as well as a local SATCOM (satellite communication system), along with other onboard ESM and COMINT systems of DRDO design and local manufacture.

    3D Short Range Radar for the Indian Air Force – ASLESHA: The Indian Air Force has ordered 20 of these systems from the DRDO, which are to begin delivery from 2008 onwards. The radars will have a range of approximately 50 km against small fighter-sized targets and will be able to determine their range, speed, azimuth and height. This radar will enable the Indian Air Force Air Defence units to accurately track low level intruders

    3D Medium Power Radar: A spinoff of the experience gained via the 3D MFCR project, the 3D Medium Power Radar project is intended to field a radar with a range of approximately 300 km against fighter sized targets. Intended for the Indian Air Force, the radar is an active phased array, and will be transportable. It will play a significant role acting as the nodes of the Indian Air Force’s enhanced Air Defence Ground Environment System.

  197. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad

    read the above articles carefully…………….

    & just don’t ask me silly questions…..

  198. NJS Says:

    we should Appreciate our friend from pak, we are very proud of u , eventhough u don’t have much knowledge your voice for ur country is so great. we all know about Jf-17 is not comparable with LCA ,jf-17 is only comparable with mig 21( mig 21 has elta 2032 radar, jf-17 has Grifo s7 radar is even lessor power than 2032 elta radar. here is some details about ur great products.

    Italian FIAR Grifo-S7 radar fixed in Jf-17
    It has no multi-target tracking capability ,It can engage (up to 8) and single-target engagement capability via semi-active radar homing air-to-air missiles and when using active radar homing air-to-air missiles, two targets can be simultaneously engaged. The radar weighs 110 kg and a slotted planar array antenna. This Italian radar has a higher MTBF than the Russian radar, up to more than 220 hours. Furthermore, the ISO-9002-certified radar and electronics manufacturing facility at Kamra of the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex already had vast experience in license assembly / production of earlier Italian FIAR Grifo series radars for the F-7MP/P/PG, and the Italian radar would have an advantage over its competitors should assembly / production licenses be granted like it had been done earlier. This Italian radar emerged as the winner in the competition against the British Blue Hawk and the French RC-400 radars, and it was reported that at least several units would equip the very first JF-17s in Pakistani service.

    LCA RADAR :
    The Hindu News : that “airworthy units” of the Israeli – manufactured MMR would be arriving here early next week for integration into the aircraft. The Elta designed and developed MMR, Elta EL/M-2052 which will be an interim option since India is developing an indigenous one, has already undergone tests on the flight test bed and ground rig in Israel.

    ELTA SYstems Group
    The EL/M-2052 is an advanced Airborne Fire Control Radar (FCR) designed for air-to-air superiority and advanced strike missions. The FCR is based on fully solid-state active phase array technology. This new technology enables the radar to achieve a longer detection range, high mission reliability and a multi-target tracking capability of up to 64 targets. The EL/M-2052 radar incorporates ELTA’s decades of field-proven experience with real operational feedback from Israeli Air Force combat pilots.

    The EL/M-2052 radar introduces new dimensions to the Air-to-Air, Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Sea operation modes of the aircraft. In the Air-to-Air mode, the radar enables a very long-range multi targets detection and enables several simultaneous weapon deliveries in combat engagements. In Air-to-Ground missions, the radar provides very high resolution mapping (SAR), surface moving target detection and tracking over RBM, DBS and SAR maps in addition to A/G ranging. In Air-to-Sea missions the radar provides long-range target detection and tracking, including target classification capabilities (RS, ISAR).

    My good advise to my good friend from pak , pls dont buy low quality products from ur neighbour( dragon ), i don’t thing they invented a better product , every time they spy from USA & other countries,and it will be added to their inventory. so pls try to get better products and speak about it’s performance . bye bye JAIHIND

  199. nad Says:

    @ Tushar-[a true Indian] and sidekicks like ” chiragcvp, NJs, Rapzor, gr 69 etc.

    If u are so good then dont tell us here and wait for the day when u get a surprise from us !!! like 65…71 and 99 were political. We get chinese platform and install western avionics thats the success and they are more reliable than russian platform too. I know half of your russian fleet will stay on ground when needed.

    Your comparison is totally out . See below:-
    1 . JF-17 will destroy LCA
    2 . F-16 C/D Block 52 will Destroy every thing like Su-30s
    3 . F-16 A/B MLU will destroy Mir 2000 and Mig – 29 A / K
    4 . J-10 Will destroy MCA ( If it ever gets airborne in 15 years)

    whatever you talk about is… “WILL” and whatever we talk is here operating “IS” !!!

    - like your LCA, including all avionics. WILL
    - Subs. WILL
    - MBTs. WILL
    - AD radars…including AEWs. WILL
    - ALCM ( if you ever have one from a fighter A/C). WILL
    - Aircraft carriers. WILL
    what do you have now … see what we have now.. :-
    1. JF-17s..NOW
    2. F-16s MLU..NOW
    3. Agusta 90B (AIP Now..I hope u know)..NOW
    4. Al-Zarrar , Al-Khalid..NOW
    5. Erieye AEW..NOW
    6. ALCM..NOW
    etc etc

    What we are going to have is :-
    1. J-10
    2. F-16 C/D Block 52
    3. JXX…will get your so called MCA etc…which you claim to be better that F-22…Wow ! thats the best joke I have heard in a few years.
    4. F-22 P Frigate.
    5. Eurocopters (Trust me we r gettin ‘em…there is some requirement)

    As Su-30s are no good, china has stopped producing them and happily inducting more and more J-10s…so watchout !

    We are happy with chinese weapons b’coz its
    going to be operated by able Pakistani armed forces … even if you buy American Equipment …we are confident you will mess up and do what you did with Mig-21s and Hunters in ‘65…you guys just dont have it…its the problem with vegees you take… it needs that killer instinct which u will never have !

    Mr. Tushar-[a true Indian] and side kicks … WE ARE HAVING COMPOSITE MATERIAL (F-16s) FROM LAST 26 YEARS — A QUARTER CENTURY NOW … WHAT AND WHEN DID YOU HAVE COMPOSITE MATERIAL????? ITS AGAIN …WE “WILL” HAVE.

    ANYTHING BEFORE 2012 ????? WE WILL NOT STAND HERE — WE WILL MOVE FORWARD TOO. WE ARE “NOW” READY TO TACKLE U IN 2015…AND U TALK OF CHINA …FOR CHINA INDIA DOES NOT EXISTS…NIETHER MILITARILY NOR ECONOMICALLY… SOCHNAY MEIN KOI HARJ NAHEEE… U MAY THREAT ALIENS FROM MARS ! AS IN YOUR OPINION THERE IS NO ONE IN THIS WORLD WHO CAN FIGHT WITH U …B’COZ U ARE ALREADY PLANNING TO KILL F-22s.
    ABBEY PEHLAY PAKISTAN SAY TOU LAR LO !
    I hope my information will help you in digestion of the Vegees you will eat with rice all your lives !!!!!

  200. Tushar - [a true indian] Says:

    @ nad………….

    go on wikipedia.org………..on the left hand side in the search bar type- SU-30MKI…..and read it if u can ………….

    & by the way any ans for phalcon?
    and not don’t bluff, google abt it 1st & then speak…..

    ur above article can b called as -
    ” a pakistini fiction story”

    google abt J-10 & J-11……then speak
    i feel pity on u…..aren’t there any schools in pak?

    u just have some manpads for air defence & some 10-15 outdated sam launchers.

    an indian propeller plane can go and strike kacachi & islamabad………

  201. sdn Says:

    I have gone through the whole post (including the senseless swearing and proof less claims!!). As an Indian, I would like to present my viewpoint on how the LCA project will benefit India.

    First of all, let me clarify one thing: LCA is not intended to be a frontline air-superiority fighter. That job for the IAF will be done by the Su-30 MKI. On the other hand, the JF-17 is meant to be a frontline fighter for the PAF. So the JF-17 must be pitted against the SU-30 MKI. And everybody will agree that the JF-17 stands no chance against the Sukhoi.

    The LCA fits the category of a defensive fighter that will act as a backup to the Sukhois and the MRCA, filling the gaps to create an impenetrable airspace. So the LCA must be compared to aircrafts that play a similar role in the PAF. These include vintage ‘Chengdu F-7MP Skybolt’ and ‘Nanchang Q-5/A-5C Fantan’ etc. Again everybody will agree that the LCA is light years ahead of these.

    Now let me tell the benefits of designing a fighter from scratch. No matter how much the delay, a fully indigenous design provides vital experience and technical know-how which stays with the country forever. So when India moves on to a new project, we will already have the critical technical knowledge and expertise gained from the years of painstaking work on the LCA. This will enable our scientists and researchers to focus on developing more advanced and cutting edge technologies and take us closer to the established fighter aircraft building countries like Russia, America and European countries.

    Another important factor required for the military aircraft industry to survive in a country is that other industries must be flourishing. This goal has already been achieved by India. So when private companies are invited to partner the state owned companies for mass production of the aircrafts, the can invest large capital in this sector. It gives me great pride to say that India is already taking steps in this direction of public-private partnerships for many defence products. We already have large industries that can provide off-the-shelf products for aircraft manufacture in the future.

    So by the time Pakistan takes it’s first steps towards designing a fully indigenous aircraft (if they ever do it), India will be way ahead working on a much advanced fighter and producing it on a large scale.

    After all, in wartime, it is the ability of the country to provide vital equipment (including spare parts) in sufficient numbers to the armed forces, which can decide the outcome of the conflict in it’s favor. India certainly is poised to achieve this self sufficiency in the coming decade, while Pakistan continues to look hungrily towards China and America for vital technologies.

  202. sdn Says:

    @nad

    You are like a kid who has just hit puberty, getting irritated with anything and everything. Calm down man. Read this post carefully.
    You talked about India’s “WILL” and Pakistan’s “NOW”. Well, we said we “WILL” have those things as we “ARE” working on those things indigenously, making all the associated technologies within the country to achieve self sufficiency, so that we “WILL NOT” have to obtain them from other countries. Whereas Pakistan “NOW” is manufacturing all those things, but has not designed it themselves, which means you “WILL” continue to depend on others.

    Joint ventures are fine, but only to fulfill needs temporarily. At the same time you should be working on indigenous design and production. But Pakistan seems to be happy with technology transfer from other countries and not making any creative efforts.

    Pakistan claimed of making air launched cruise missiles, but they are not working on making any indigenous aircraft to launch them from. So if tomorrow the countries which provide it the aircrafts pull the plug, Pakistan’s air launched cruise missile will have to be grounded.

    Focus on basic requirements first. Once your base is strong, try to reach for the advanced techs. You depend on others for your basics.

  203. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ nad

    go to wikipedia.org , type SU-30MKI in search bar and read the information……..if u can , u’ll understand it.

    SU-30MKI is equiped with a PESA radar [hope u know the meaning of PESA],it can act as a mini awacs.

    IT IS THE 2nd BEST AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER AIRCRAFT IN THE WORLD.

    THE LIST IS AS FOLLOWS-
    1. F-22 RAPTOR
    2. SU-30MKI
    3. EURO FIGHTER TYPHOON.
    4. F-18 E\F
    5. RAFALE

    The Sukhoi Su-30 MKI[1] (NATO reporting name Flanker-H) is a variant of the Sukhoi Su-30, jointly-developed by Russia’s Sukhoi Corporation and India’s HAL for the Indian Air Force. It is a heavy class, long-range, multi-role, air superiority fighter and strike fighter. The variant also consists of French, Israeli and Indian subsystems. The MKI variant is a much more advanced fighter jet than the basic K and MK variants and is considered a 4.5 generation fighter.[2][3] Due to similar features and components, the MKI variant is often considered to be a customized Indian variant of the Sukhoi Su-35.[4][5] Su-30MKI showed its class last at the Indra dhanush 2007 where it was fielded against the Eurofighter Typhoon

    The Su-30MKI version is a development of the Su-27 series. Though a variant of Su-30, the Su-30 MKI is more advanced than the basic Su-30 or the Chinese Su-30 MKK aircraft. Its avionics, aerodynamic features and components are similar to the Su-35.[6] This variant has significant upgrades on it from the basic Su-30 MK version. The aircraft was jointly designed by Russia’s Sukhoi and India’s HAL.

    India exercised its Su-30MKIs against the Royal Air Force’s Tornado ADVs in October 2006.[7] This was the first large scale exercise with any foreign air force in which the IAF used its Su-30MKI’s extensively. This exercise was also the first in 43 years with the RAF. In July 2007, the IAF’S Sukhoi-30MKI’S were pitted against RAF Eurofighter Typhoon’s .[8]

    * Canard Foreplanes: Canards are installed to increase lifting effectiveness and enhance manoeuvrability of the aircraft, They are deflected automatically to ensure controllable flight at high angles-of-attack.
    * Thrust Vectoring Control (TVC): The 2D TVC makes an aircraft highly maneuverable. The aircraft is capable of near-zero airspeed at high angles of attack and dynamic aerobatics in negative speeds up to 200 km/h. Su-30MKI becomes the world’s first TVC equipped operational fighter aircraft. According to Jane’s all the World’s Aircraft, India has the option to upgrade the engine with AL-31FP, which employs fuel manipulation to provide a pseudo 3D TVC (asymmetric 2D TVC), resulting in greater maneuverability. The IAF’s 20- Lightining squadron has the distinction of being the first air force squadron in the world, to induct TVC fighters at the operational level.
    * The N011-M Bars is the most powerful Russian passive phased array Radar (PESA) radar on any exported fighter aircraft. The passive phased array Radar Irbis-E [9][10][11]will make its debut by 2010, when the first totally-built Su-30MKI will roll out from HAL Nasik.
    * A multi-national avionics complex sourced from Russia, France, Israel and India which includes Display, Navigation, Targeting and Electronic warfare systems.
    * The Su-30 MKI has a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 8000 km. The Su-30MK and Su-30MK-1 have a maximum range, with one in-flight refuelling, of 5200 km (35% less than MKI variant).

    The IAF has been exercising with other air forces like the USAF, French Air Force, Singapore Air Force, Israeli Air Force over the last couple of years and the most recent one being the exercise with the RAF’s Tornados and Eurofighter Typhoons. Indra Dhanush Exercise 2007 featured advanced combatants on both sides. On one side is Britain’s Eurofighter Typhoon, whose advanced aerodynamics and intuitive controls and avionics have led to studies like the UK DERA rating it as the second-best air superiority aircraft in the world. On the other side is India’s SU-30MKI, the most evolved variant of Sukhoi’s outstanding Flanker family, with aerodynamics that allow unique maneuvers, and full thrust vectoring besides. The british pilots where really impressed by the performance of the pilots and Su-30 MKIs. For the first time in July 2008, the IAF sent Su-30Mki’s and aerial refuellers to participate in the red flag exercises, USAF pilots were impressed by the grand show put up by the SU-30MKI, with the chief of the excercise going on to say that IAF was one amongst the best forces to have taken part in the excercise till date.[15]

    Radar

    The forward facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) is a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array radar. The N011M is a digital multi-mode dual frequency band radar.[4]

    Features:

    * The N011M can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system. It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features.
    * For aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a maximum 200 km tracking range, and 60 km in the rear hemisphere. A MiG-21, for instance can be detected at a distance of up to 135 km. Design maximum search range for an F-16 target was 140–160 km.
    * The radar can track 15 air targets and engage the 4 most dangerous simultaneously. These targets can even include cruise missiles and motionless helicopters.
    * The Su-30MKI can function as a mini-AWACS as a director or command post for other aircraft. The target co-ordinates can be transferred automatically to at least 4 other aircraft.
    * The radar can detect ground targets such as tanks at 40–50 km.
    * The N011M is claimed to detect large sea targets at a distance up to 400 km, and small sized ones at a distance of 120 km.

    The Su-30MKI can be integrated with the BrahMos cruise missiles, it can carry up to 3 of these cruise missiles for the land attack and anti shipping roles. This ability, being a unique feature, usually assigned to dedicated bombers, further enhances its multi-role capabilities and is the only fighter in the world at present, with this capability.

    By 2010, when the first totally-built Su-30MKI will roll out from HAL, it could be equipped with a new phased array radar called the Irbis (Snow Leopard), which will replace the N011M Bars.

    An integrated ECM system turns on the warning units that provide signals about incoming enemy missiles, a new generation radio recon set, active jamming facilities and radar and heat decoys. It also includes an electronic intelligence unit, a chaff and flare dispenser and a RWR system.

    * The RWR system is an indigenously developed system by DRDO, called Tarang, (Wave in Sanskrit). It has direction finding capability and is known to have a programmable threat library. The RWR is derived from work done on an earlier system for India’s MiG-23BNs known as the Tranquil, which is now superseded by the more advanced Tarang series.
    * Elta EL/M-8222 a self-protection jammer developed by Israel Aircraft Industries is the MKI’s standard EW pod, which the Israeli Air Force uses on its F-15s. The ELTA El/M-8222 Self Protection Pod is a power-managed jammer, air-cooled system with an ESM receiver integrated into the pod. The pod contains an antenna on the forward and aft ends, which receive the hostile RF signal and after processing deliver the appropriate response.

    Su-30 MKIs can also use the Cobham 754 buddy refuelling pods.

    The ranges mentioned should be taken as indicative, since they vary based on flight profile, target characteristics as well as several other factors.

    Air to Air Missiles:

    * 6 × R-27R/AA-10A/Astra[17] semi-active radar homing medium range AAM of range 80 km.
    * 6 × R-27T (AA-10B) infrared homing seeker, medium range AAM, 70 km
    * 2 × R-27P (AA-10C) passive radar seeker, long range AAM
    * 10 × R-77 (AA-12) active radar homing medium range AAM, 100 km
    * 6 × R-73 (AA-11) short range AAM, 30 km

    Air to Surface Missiles:

    * 2 × Kh-59ME TV guided standoff Missile, 115 km
    * 2 × Kh-59MK Laser guided standoff Missile, 130 km
    * 4 × Kh-35Anti-Ship Missile, 130 km
    * 3 × PJ-10 Bramhos Supersonic Cruise Missile,300 km
    * 6 × Kh-31P/A anti-radar missile, 70 km
    * 6 × Kh-29T/L laser guided missile, 30 km
    * 4 × S-8 rocket pods (80 unguided rockets)
    * 4 × S-13 rocket pods (20 unguided rockets)

    Bombs:

    * 6 × KAB-500L laser guided bombs
    * 3 × KAB-1500L laser guided bombs
    * 8 × FAB-500T dumb bombs
    * 28 × OFAB-250-270 dumb bombs
    * 32 × OFAB-100-120 dumb bombs
    * 8 × RBK-500 cluster bombs

    Pods:

    * APK-9 (Datalink Pod for the KH-59 Missile)
    * Cobham buddy refuelling pod, 754 series[18]
    * IAI – Elta EL/L-8222 (RF jammer)
    * Rafael LITENING Laser Targeting Pod.
    * DARE (DRDO) High Accuracy Direction Finding (HADF) pod

  204. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    @ NAD
    F-16 BLOCK 50\52 DOES NOT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST SU-30MKI…….

    U NEED 2 PURCHASE TYPHOON , F-18 E\F TO GIVE IT A FIGHT.

  205. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    nad whe r u……………?

    its time 4 u 2 bluff

  206. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    The new J-11 A & J-11B is an updated version of the Sukhoi Su-27SK air superiority fighter.
    wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenyang_J-11

    J-10 is a upgraded copy of cancelled Israeli LAVI project which was infact designed 2 replace F-16 in Israeli air force.
    wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-10

    SU-30MKI is far better than J-10 & J-11

    pakis r not a threat 2 india……in case of war , IAF , ARMY & IN will destroy pakistan in 72 hrs.

  207. Tushar-[a true Indian] Says:

    The IAI EL/M-2075 Phalcon is an Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) radar system in use by a number of countries to give intelligence to maintain air superiority and conduct surveillance. It was developed with a partnership between Israeli Aircraft Industries and Elta Electronics Industries, of Israel. The Phalcon was considered[who?] the most advanced AEW&C system in the world, before the introduction of American-made Wedgetail for the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF).[citation needed]

    Instead of using a rotodome, a moving radar found on AWACS aircraft, the Phalcon uses the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA), an active phased array radar. This radar consists of an array transmit/receive (T/R) modules that allow a beam to be electronically steered, making a physically rotating rotodome unnecessary. AESA radars have very short to instantaneous scanning rates, which makes them difficult to detect.

    Phalcon radars can be mounted on the an aircraft’s fuselage or on the top inside a small dome. Either position gives the radar 360 degree coverage. This allows it to track high maneuvering targets and low flying objects from hundreds of kilometers away, under all weather conditions, in both day and night.

    The radars can be fitted to a number of aircraft, including the Boeing 707, Boeing 767, Boeing 747, and the Ilyushin Il-76. Under a contract signed with Chile in 1989, the first Phalcon system to be installed was fitted to a former LanChile Boeing 707, and was first flown in 1993. In May 1994 the aircraft was delivered to the Chilean Air Force, where it is known as the Condor.
    Previous version of IAF Gulfstream G500 Eitam
    Previous version of IAF Gulfstream G500 Eitam

    China’s purchase of the Phalcon system in 2000 was denied due to pressure from the United States. India bought three Phalcon systems in 2004 for a cost of $1.1 billion. At the same time, Russia agreed to supply IL-76s to India for fitting of the Phalcon.

    The Israeli Air Force has purchased 3 Gulfstream G550 aircraft to serve as the new IDF platform for the Phalcon system.[1] The system is called Eitam. Extensive modifications made to the Gulfstream’s fuselage, such as the addition of protruding composite radomes, are intended to allow for the housing of the radar arrays. In 2007, 4 similar G550-Phalcon aircraft were also purchased by the Republic of Singapore Air Force, to eventually replace its ageing E-2C Hawkeyes. All 4 G550s are expected to be in-service by 2010.[2]

  208. nad Says:

    @ Tushar-[a true Indian] …

    Good copy and paste !!! you didnt mention about the “aspect rario, Wing loading and specific fuel consumption” …these are the only things left in your obselete russian Su-30s. MiG-29s have already had their lives in IAF…because of being of Russian origin. Well you have given so much info u can print it and compile a DASH-1 of Su-30 !!!
    When you guys went to UK for exercise US elints also flew in on the same day and you guys didnt use you Su-30 Radars in the whole execise…abay chootyay… you should understand west is interested to know the AI fingerprints in particular and the Aircraft in general … and u innocent guys are happy that US gen . said u are one of the best participated as yet. basically u are done.

    if Su-30 is so good then why are u looking for a replacement of its AI radar ??? u guys are stuck with unreliable russian equipment…and we r happy on it.

    u talk of old Mig-23 RWR …and CFD etc… plz ..PAF has CFD and RWR even on A-5s ( not to say all other –the whole fleet) these eqp’mnt.

    How about Erieye, and … we are getting KJ-2000 AWACS… watch out …. your Army and Navy dont have it !!! they cannot …yes may be bollywood can do something to us… actually your forces wont come out leaving bollywood movie in the middle and fight …saalay rishwat khor !!!

    we ahve npthing to worry about from u … and just to add insult to injury once we fight we will make sure china blows u out from east and u are sandwiched. How about that ?

    actually we dont believe in fight like u ….we just believe in killing u …
    and thats what we are gonna do to u guys.

    by the way u didnt tell me which kinda composite material u guys are using now.???.. and i hope u noticed we r using it (F-16s) for last more than a quarter century now.

    and also how did u like Mirages launching cruise missile …any coments???

    All u wrote was Su-30 can …. CAN CAN and CAN etc etc. what can it do now…??? u dont even have shelters to park them inside…its like a 737 which requires a hanger to park inside …abay tumharay jahaz dhoop mein kharab ho jaen gaey. waisay bhee russin hein !!!! and dont forget because they are parked outside we will get most of ‘em on ground.
    and if someone gets airborne we will kill ‘em.
    because we rely a lot on goofy indian lalloo indian pilots and leadership.
    J-10 will kill u all … its not an old LAVI its a killer to SUs…and yes if Su-30 radar can see form far ( i doubt
    it) it will help u run away from far distance because a 737 ( i mean Su ) must not come close to J-10 or block 52 !
    Sweet Dreams …

  209. Tushar-[a true Indian] … Says:

    @ nad

    the airframe of LCA is 45% composite……….
    Its MMR is much more capable……the israele radar.EL\M-2052 is being integrated in LCA. it is a AESA radar.

    ur F-16’s r useless…they r of 1980 & have undergone only minor upgrades & still they r not BVR capable 2 the level indian aircrafts are. our MIG-29 are ungergoing major refit which includes a modern radar, avionics, airframe rehaul etc etc.
    r MIG-21 bisons will flush out ur f-16’s from the sky.

    In PAK-FA , russia wants the indian expertise in composite materials & software.
    phalcon will join IAF in jan-feb 2009……Erieye & KJ-2000 will join PAF only after 2012-2013. by that time IAF will get 3 more Phalcon which was a follow on order made in mar 2008.
    E-3 sentry & phalcon r the best awacs in the world……

    the induction of AKASH sam’s has already begun.and dont forget the SPYDAR.

    and abt J-10…………….dont say wat comes in ur mind , say the truth. atleast read wikipedia.org u’ll cum 2 know.
    china has never built any fighter on its own…..it just copies some other.
    the indian RWR was far better than the russian 1 thats the reason why v have replaced it….but china still uses the russian RWR.

  210. Tushar-[a true Indian] … Says:

    pakistan has 36 F-16 of 1980 generation……
    v have
    50 mirage 2000
    65 mig-29
    130 jaguar [upgraded 2 darin II standard]
    140 mig-27
    126 mig-21 bison
    150 mig-21M & mig-21 bis
    30 mig-23
    66 hawk
    80 su-30mki in service [ 230 will b in service by 2012]

    and not 2 forget 126 mrca which will join IAF from 2012.
    LCA will b inducted from 2010.200+ planned

    Transport aircraft

    The IAF currently operates 25 Ilyushin Il-76 for military transport duties such as tactical and strategic airlift, at all operational levels. The Il-76 MD is a strategic airlifter with a payload of 95,000 lb and a range of over 5,000 km (2,700 nm; 3,100 statute miles). In 2003, the IAF also purchased 6 IL-78MKI aircraft from Russia which were fitted with ARP-3 aerial refueling pods from Israel.

    IAF has a fleet of 64 Avro 748 which has a payload of 5,136 kg (11,323 lb) and has a range of 1,715 km (926 nm; 1,066 mi). The air force also operates a fleet of 94 twin-engined turboprop Antonov An-32 and 73 Dornier Do 228 utility aircraft.

    MiG-21 Bison
    Upgraded version for export and Indian Air Force is the first customer. Armed with Phazotron Kopyo (Spear) airborne radar, which is capable of simultaneously tracking 8 targets and engage 2 of the 8 target tracked with semi-active radar homing air-to-air missile such as Vympel R-27. The radar also enable to fighter to deploy active radar homing air-to-air missile such as Vympel R-77 when additional channel is incorporated. Russian advertise has claimed that this version is equivalent to early F-16.

  211. Tushar-[a true Indian] … Says:

    @ nad

    air defence information

  212. Tushar-[a true Indian] … Says:

    @ nad

    pakista air defence information …….. if u know then write……

    dont bluff here

  213. Wg Cdr. Harshwardhan Vedant Says:

    After observing the comments here, I feel that this thread has gone from a professional discussion board to a “I am better than you” childish gameplay. Though I am a Su-30 MKI pilot, I am here to highlight a few things that are totally wrong here on this thread.

    The HAL Tejas is to replace the existing MiG-21 bis with a 4.5 generation air superiority fighter and from what information we have in the Air Force, it is going along as planned. The competition is not with any nation’s aeronautical capabilities but for us to neutralize our enemies in stipulated time. To those who think that HAL Tejas has majority of its parts from outside, let me make it clear: there are only 3 parts from outside namely the HMS and LITENING pods from Israel and the BVR enhancement program from France. Apart from that, all the parts are Indian made.

    I do not know much about JF-17 since the Chinese and Pakistani media is strictly censored on this aircraft, except the fact that Pakistan was fine enough with the J-10s and there was no need to unnecessaily compete with us, since we consider China and terrorism as a threat and not Pakistan.

  214. tushar Says:

    @ nad////////

    stop bluffing

  215. tushar Says:

    @ nad////////

    stop bluffing…………………

    speak the truth……..

  216. umer Says:

    haha… poor Tushar [true Indian]….
    Nice work “nad”..u really knw the facts…
    i think at the end of the day its the Pilot in the Fighter NOT advanced aircraft… Indians FORGOT 65′ and 71′ Wars b/w both airforces… PAKISTANI fighter pilots outclass them…totallyyyy.
    indians manein ya na manein :D

  217. Sun Says:

    Guys, why are you even bothered to provide facts and figures to these Pakis…they are too blind to see. You can call their bluff, but they are too parochial to accept the reality. You can have a debate on topics like this with civilized and educated beings, not with Pakis who are all but terrorists coming out of the demon hall.

  218. hmm Says:

    This nad is a coomplete idiot.. why is anyone even bothering with him??.. His logic is limited to “Meat eaters have killer instict, veggies dont”.. and the reason why he is sure of Paki victory is that “because we rely a lot on goofy indian lalloo indian pilots and leadership”!! wow.. Typically imbecile & ignorant pakistani… I mean, our capabilities apart, has he ever taken a look at the Paki political lot.. a mix of fools, religious zealots, and all governed by army and ISI! By his logic, we can rest assured Pakistan will somehow manage to self-destruct within a few years without India firing a single bullet.

  219. nad Says:

    @ Tushar-[a true Indian] …

    Good copy and paste !!! you didnt mention about the “aspect rario, Wing loading and specific fuel consumption” …these are the only things left in your obselete russian Su-30s. MiG-29s have already had their lives in IAF…because of being of Russian origin. Well you have given so much info u can print it and compile a DASH-1 of Su-30 !!!
    When you guys went to UK for exercise US elints also flew in on the same day and you guys didnt use you Su-30 Radars in the whole execise…abay chootyay… you should understand west is interested to know the AI fingerprints in particular and the Aircraft in general … and u innocent guys are happy that US gen . said u are one of the best participated as yet. basically u are done.

    if Su-30 is so good then why are u looking for a replacement of its AI radar ??? u guys are stuck with unreliable russian equipment…and we r happy on it.

    u talk of old Mig-23 RWR …and CFD etc… plz ..PAF has CFD and RWR even on A-5s ( not to say all other –the whole fleet) these eqp’mnt.

    How about Erieye, and … we are getting KJ-2000 AWACS… watch out …. your Army and Navy dont have it !!! they cannot …yes may be bollywood can do something to us… actually your forces wont come out leaving bollywood movie in the middle and fight …saalay rishwat khor !!!

    we ahve npthing to worry about from u … and just to add insult to injury once we fight we will make sure china blows u out from east and u are sandwiched. How about that ?

    actually we dont believe in fight like u ….we just believe in killing u …
    and thats what we are gonna do to u guys.

    by the way u didnt tell me which kinda composite material u guys are using now.???.. and i hope u noticed we r using it (F-16s) for last more than a quarter century now.

    and also how did u like Mirages launching cruise missile …any coments???

    All u wrote was Su-30 can …. CAN CAN and CAN etc etc. what can it do now…??? u dont even have shelters to park them inside…its like a 737 which requires a hanger to park inside …abay tumharay jahaz dhoop mein kharab ho jaen gaey. waisay bhee russin hein !!!! and dont forget because they are parked outside we will get most of ‘em on ground.
    and if someone gets airborne we will kill ‘em.
    because we rely a lot on goofy indian lalloo indian pilots and leadership.
    J-10 will kill u all … its not an old LAVI its a killer to SUs…and yes if Su-30 radar can see form far ( i doubt
    it) it will help u run away from far distance because a 737 ( i mean Su ) must not come close to J-10 or block 52 !
    Sweet Dreams …

  220. BombBoy Says:

    I think this guy BILAL AFRIDI is an Indian traitor who is siding with the Pakis just because of his religious beliefs. He seems to know a lot of things that only the local press reveals, now the intelligence agencies should get interest and be on the look out for this traitor, he looks like a potential terrorist.

  221. BombBoy Says:

    Oh! The arguments made by our peace loving neighbours :) :) are hilarious to say the least. It’s like them naming their missiles Ghaznavi, Ghouri just to heckle us since they thought we named the Prithvi missile after Maharaj Prithvi Raj Chauhan. In fact if that was the intention the Indian scientists would have named it the Shivaji, since he was one warrior who taunted the Mughal rulers to no end. It is common knowledge that their IRBM’s are just badge engineered North Korean Nodong, Taepodong-1 / Taepodong-2 missiles. One glaring clue that these are full blow missiles exposes is the way these guys conduct the testing of these so called indigenous missiles. They did several tests over densely populated demographies.
    It’s not only the JF-17 (a glorified Mig-21) but even their MBT are bought out Chinese systems. The Al Khaid is made under licence just as we built our Vijayanta & Ajeya tanks. Development of these complex weapons requires a solid engineering and technological base which Pak clearly lacks, you just can’t get up one day and make these machines, it requires intense R & D and infra structure investments and series production will start only after considerable trails and certifications.
    A case in point is our Arjun MBT/LCA programs, if need be India could have procured several sub-systems from foreign sources instead of developing within our shores, but the determination to develop the technologies delayed the project by several years. For example the LCA program out of a total of 35 major avionics components and line-replaceable units (LRUs), only three involve foreign systems. These are the multi-function displays by Israel/France, the helmet-mounted display and sight (HMDS) and the laser pod supplied by Rafael both by Israel, However, when the LCA reaches production stage, the MFDs are expected to be supplied by Indian companies. As a consequence of the embargo imposed on India after its nuclear weapons tests in May 1998, many items originally planned to be imported — like the landing gear — were instead developed indigenously .
    Another notable indigenous achievement is mastering the technology to design and manufacture advanced carbon-fibre composite structures and a modern “glass cockpit.” ADA if fact has had a profitable commercial spin-off in its Autolay integrated automated software system for the design and development of 3-D laminated composite elements being currently used by Airbus, Infosys and others. Overall about 70% of the LCA will be manufactured in India. Development of a fighter jet is no mean business, several thousand components have to be developed and tested and qualified before use. Since India did not have an active aviation program it has become all the more difficult to develop these technologies from scratch.
    On the other hand just look at our space program, though we started 15 years later than China we have been able to catch up with them now at a steady pace. China is using its space program to enhance its prestige in the world while our program is purely implemented for economic reasons. That’s the reason why our space program gets a measly budget allocation, if we pursue our program just as China does, India would have sent a man into space a decade earlier. One cannot achieve such technological feats without resolve and investments. We don’t have lofty programs like the recent Chinese EVA (Spacewalk) or sending an Indian into space. The inference here is that it has taken ISRO close to 25 years to develop a credible launch capability but after that it is easy sailing and now since they have ample time on hand they are developed complex programs such as Chandrayaan, Mars journey and then to send the first Indian (from Indian soil on an Indian vehicle) into space.

  222. KGB Says:

    People need to understand that JF17 was designed based on MIG29, not MIG21, It is a old Chinese Trap to use older version’s name to name new planes. For example, J8 and J8II are totally different planes.
    JF17 was designed to be a plane that can use all kind missiles. AIM120… PL9, PL10, 11,12…
    You cannot win a war without good guns.
    JF17 is not as good as Su-30MKI but it certainly can get Su-30.
    I cannot imagine a small plane such as LCA can use so many missiles.

  223. annonmyous Says:

    both india n pakistan are poor countries they can hardly feed its public more than 40percent live life in measery they are building war machine fuck upped shit ha ha ha ha ……………

  224. Adam Smith Says:

    I have been following the reports and updates coming out for the JF-17 for quite some time. Let me introduce my self, I am an engineer at a company which does produce fighter aircrafts for the US, NATO, Israel, and other non-NATO allies of the US. You can consider me as an expert in the aero business. Here are some of the comparisons that I think should me worth looking:
    a. Main Frame: fuselage, wings H/V stabilizers
    Aluminum alloys: There is nothing wrong with it. It may not be as strong as composite
    materials but it’s easily repair able. PAF repair records are impressive since they are still able to fly old China made *A something while IAF not that impressive. The point I’m trying to make is since the over hall facilities for any reason are not equipped or the technicians are not willing to work. IAF, might, will have problems in keeping up with the new parts. Composite parts are good light weighted but it’s a wrong impression onto the general public that they can be repaired. Fact is not till right now. The only real solution is to replace that part with a new one. While metal, aluminum, can be easily repaired, and there repairs are not as expensive as composites. Winner; depends on the ground crew. I also want to add while composite materials have better chances on radar registration, since the design of the aircraft is not stealth, the Pakistanians and Chinese will not have a problem in dictating LCA. Winner, none.
    b. Wings with stabilizer configuration
    Indian aircraft is a delta wing configuration which is historically France design. This design is good in high velocity, fast traveling, but in dog fights a conventional wing with stabilizer always will have an edge. No expert on this plane will differ with that argument. Usually dog fights are done on slow speeds. A delta wing airframe will lost its lift at slow speeds, and if they have designed the wing to have lift on slow speeds then the aircraft can’t be designed to fly fast. It’s just the way aerodynamics work. That is why all the newer 5th generation aircrafts have conventional wing configuration. The moment you have a stabilizer on an aircraft forward or backward under any swept, it becomes conventional. Clearly JF-17 has an edge there.
    c. Avionics
    Both aircrafts have state-of-the-art avionics; Israelis or Indian on one side and Chinese, Italian, French or Pakistanian. Difference matters when choosing the side are you on. Some may claim if the pods are installed under the wing, or ever the case they might say, remember both aircrafts are not designed to be stealth. Winner, none.
    d. Power plant
    As of today, India, Pakistan, China and Israel don’t have the industry to support %100 manufacturing of an engine, although they are getting better. A lot of countries are capable of assembling, and over hauling an engine so there is nothing new about it, and it never means that they have the ability to reproduce an that engine. Special meteorological components with precision are used to produce such engines. I will add, China is close to it though may be in next five to seven years, rest are in descending order; Israel, India, and last Pakistan. So if anyone clams that India is producing Kavi engine by domestic means, you know that not true. Since JF-17 is using RD-98 engine, same engine used in Su-30, my money is on that power plant, compare to others. Winner, clearly JF-17.

    Here is the issue that should be addressed; it’s been almost 23-25 years since Indians are trying to build an aircraft, LCA, on the other hand, Chinese and Pakistanians have produced in 4-7 years. What can there partnership do in next 10-20 years anyone can imagine. It is clear that Chinese and Pakistanian leaders, scientist, and engineers have clear idea what they are trying to do while Indians don’t.

    P.S. anything left out of this post was intestinal, because they all can be always upgraded.

  225. TruthSpeaker Says:

    What to say about pakis..the way they are going on after few yeas there will not be,even requirement of dropping a single over them ,they are on a way 2 destroy them self. Pakistan is considered as world most corrupted and unstable country,even it is not confirm who is ruling out there and who terrorist or government is controlling there nukes. Most of the the terrorist are made in pakistan and they are running terrorist academy beneath ISI.100% of people knows india for its raising economy and brain power,but those people who knows pakistan are due to terrorism.Most important thing Pakistan is struggling with bankruptcy and probably will get bankrupt in couple of months. Indain Billionaire like Ambanis and tatas can buy all the product made by pakistan for a year.even pakistan dont even have any industrial,economical or educational infrastructure.
    so you people(pakis.) should better discuss on this,then of fighting defense capabilities.you people know you stand no where in front of india ,but as a fact u r not gonna to accept,but for ur information
    1.2nd Biggest Army in World.
    2.3rd Biggest Airforce.
    3.3rd Biggest Navy.

    apart form this.
    1.1st In IT and Outsourcing.
    2.1st In number of Scientist and Professional.
    3.in Elite Nation group of 6 Possessing Advance Space group possiblites
    4.Biggest English Speaking Nation.
    5.2nd largest growing Economy.
    6.Every IT Industry in the world has its development center in india.
    7.Indian Companys stand no.2 in acquisition.

    there are many more…

    in the field of education
    1.IIT delhi ranked no 2 in world for technical education.
    2.IIM A Ranked No.1 In Asia.

    so frnds one can write a book under title.India Surpaas pakistan in 100000…….. ways.

    now as the topic was LCA vs JF.17,JF.17 not even stand for comparision,so better leave this thing as you already have known whats the problem and what u people lacking,so it will better for u people to Start Doing then Thinking.

  226. TruthSpeaker Says:

    What to say about pakis..the way they are going on after few yeas there will not be,even requirement of dropping a single bomb over them ,they are on a way 2 destroy them self. Pakistan is considered as world most corrupted and unstable country,even it is not confirm who is ruling out there and who terrorist or government is controlling there nukes. Most of the the terrorist are made in pakistan and they are running terrorist academy beneath ISI.100% of people knows india for its raising economy and brain power,but those people who knows pakistan are due to terrorism.Most important thing Pakistan is struggling with bankruptcy and probably will get bankrupt in couple of months. Indain Billionaire like Ambanis and tatas can buy all the product made by pakistan for a year.even pakistan dont even have any industrial,economical or educational infrastructure.
    so you people(pakis.) should better discuss on this,then on fighting defense capabilities.you people know you stand no where in front of india ,but as a fact u r not gonna to accept,but for ur information some things about india

    1.2nd Biggest Army in World.
    2.3rd Biggest Airforce.
    3.3rd Biggest Navy.

    apart form this.
    1.1st In IT and Outsourcing.
    2.1st In number of Scientist and Professional.
    3.in Elite Nation group of 6 Possessing Advance Space group possiblites
    4.Biggest English Speaking Nation.
    5.2nd largest growing Economy.
    6.Every IT Industry in the world has its development center in india.
    7.Indian Companys stand no.2 in acquisition.

    there are many more…

    in the field of education
    1.IIT delhi ranked no 2 in world for technical education.
    2.IIM A Ranked No.1 In Asia.

    so frnds one can write a book under title.India Surpaas pakistan in 100000…….. ways.

    now as the topic was LCA vs JF.17,JF.17 not even stand for comparision,so better leave this thing as you already have known whats the problem and what u people lacking,so it will better for u people to Start Doing then Thinking.

  227. Shekar Says:

    What is this comparision with PAK and Indian Air power,

    Whilst India is already a space power. Which do I have to give proof, I am sure that the pakis will be peeing in their pants thinking of the power we have in India.

    Then there is no point in talking to ignorant and bluffing freeks who have been brought up in that environment. So be it let them be happy about their superiority but when the real thing comes we have already given them the taste of our power but then if interested for more then we do have more and this time it is goining to be more lethal.

  228. Mighty Taurean Says:

    I really do not understand why the hell we Indians spend time in arguing with these mindless, ill-infomed pakistani. The thread started as LCA vs JF 17 and ended up as Paki & Indian Prowess.

    For the time being lets take that India lost in 1965, 1971, Kargil, Our pilots are dumb asses,LCA is a failure, even jF 10 can knock down SU 30, Pak has classified ICBM and Pak can capture India in 2 days.phoooh!!! pakis tell me if you want to hear some more..

    1. If LCA and PAD is failure: Atleast we are trying to make it, fail , remake it and thus we gain experience wcich will help us in future. Pakis do not have the experience even in car manufacturing. They are always dependent will always remain dependent. “Doosron ke tukdo par”

    2. India has lost all the wars ;-) . Why cant u retain only few mountains in Kargil?

    Lets tok about the present now…

    And these brainf****d pakis do not understand that no country on the globe considers them as a value add in terms of technology and economy.Thats why u are bombed daily by US and no country bothers to raise questions on it.

    1. Pak is on the verge of Civil War. I wont deny tht we Indians have done it..U deserve it
    2. Indians already have a strategic presence in Afghanistan and Tazikistan
    3. Paki Nuke arsenals will be overtaken by a joint team of US-India-Israel before it cud reach Taliban.
    4. bankrupt and seeking IMF assistance

    So my dear paki brothers see beyond wot ur rulers have taught you, it will be lot easier for you to survive in the future world order, or else u will be wiped out of it. That time ur beefy killer insticts, good looks, machoism will go for a toss.

    Do not teach ur Father India how to ****

  229. Mighty Taurean Says:

    By the way, how many sattelites has Pak launched till date. I cannot really recall as they are many ;-) Is in’t it???

    We have our Tricoilour on moon
    We can even see ur wives undergarments from the sky
    So all ur Hatfs, Baburs adn Akburs are under our watch. You take off and we shoot them down from sky.

  230. the rajput ministry Says:

    @shekhar
    yup u r right bro……… there isnt any point bragging bout our might to …DEAF & BLIND people…. cuz only thing they know is to mindlessly shout at the top of their voices… any ways . this already is too high on emotions debate … so i got somethin for my brothers to laugh at…. but before that …please pay attention…. even in 71 ….. paf was flying the …SABRE jets….. just ask them….hw many they lost to …tiny indian GNATS…. whilst sabres were far more superior compared to gnats (ajeets)
    its the men who fly the machine that matters….not the machine…. so my dear neighbours…… better have skilled men than just bragging uselessly bout machines……
    even if u get some donated 5th gen fighters today….. our ageing mig-21 bis wud be enuf to ground them

    @ all indian brothers
    now laughin time folks

    wife: ji mai suneyo , ki america pakistan ko , nave jahaj deve hai?
    hubby: theek suneyo ri bhaagwan.
    wife: ib mahare fauji ke karogo?
    hubby: dar di ke baat ni bhaagwan, ,,,, jahaj to le liyogo o…. hauslaa ke america ka baap devego??

  231. OCEAN Says:

    when LCA is going to be inducted ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i think 2110,,,, sorry i was wrong must be around 2070,,,,,,so wait to compare it to JF 17.

  232. aussie_dart Says:

    guys.., whats wrong with the Indians, you guys are on a totally different league., why compare yourself with pakistan??
    Its just being foolish on your part., everybody knows where India stands and where Pakistan stands.., why do the pakistanis have to brag every where on how superior they are?.,it shows their insecurity.. You guys have enough problems of your own.., hope you guys get ur IMF fund ready or u r in serious trouble…

  233. umair Says:

    @tushar
    as you mentioned that if the conflict between pak and ind arises then india will defeat pak in 72 hours, then what happens in the war of 1965 your army did not enter in lahore in 17 days although a great area of indian land is capatured by pakistan army and then you go to your father u.n.o,and what happens in 1999 when your army came down from mountains due to winter and pakistan army climbed on mountains , it’s shame for indian army and then you go to your mother u.S.A.
    i advice you that donot comments over such things that are beyond your limits or knowledge

  234. JBH Says:

    @nad
    seems the pakistani doesn’t know about the state of his country economy,boasting to be a world power.
    yet his country begs financial from US now the IMF,your country is still on world map koz the indian leadership is 2 kind and the US is pampering you but it’s not long before they’ll dump u. we’ll c then

  235. nad Says:

    “”"”Shekar “”"”!!!!! Use that space power to control Mumbai…..u guys could not control civilians (DECCAN MUJAHIDEEN) of your own in 3 days; how would u fight PAF ????? it takes guts, which unfortunately ( fortunately for us !!) u guys dont have .. u have to eat beef for that .. which unfortunately u guys can’t .. so HOW would u ever fight PAF ?… if u guys are so good why u are dying to buy F-16s from USA ? are TEJAS, u-30s not good enough ? if yes get them more if not then mmmmm !!!!!

  236. nad Says:

    I keep telling u guys that u are incompitent !!! look what u did with INS TAWAR !!!! u guys killed those innocent civilian — the Thai fishermen on their own fishing trawler…they didnt need your help … if u had to help them like this !!! they were better off with the pirates..hahaha !!!

  237. Sun Says:

    @nad
    Use that space power to control Mumbai…..u guys could not control civilians (DECCAN MUJAHIDEEN) of your own in 3 days; how would u fight PAF ????? it takes guts, which unfortunately ( fortunately for us !!) u guys dont have .. u have to eat beef for that…

    Yeah keep having the beef, shit eaters!!! but by now u must know who is behind the Mumbai mayhem and how many innocent lives were lost!!!! U Pakis just make tall baseless claims …for the last 25 years u have been exporting terrorism…. know what? ….forget IAF….U GUYS NEED TO BE NUKED AND ERASED FROM THE FACE OF THIS EARTH !!!!! AND THAT DAY IS NOT FAR OFF….. last words to u Pakis…if u want some, come get some…….

  238. the rajput ministry Says:

    @ nad
    Wat INS tabar did was for somalian pirates which were on board the ship at that time ……. they got proof for that…and it was a misunderstanding

    let me ask u 1 question now……. wat did ur terrorists do to our innocent ppl…. wat right did they hav……it was no misunderstanding…….. wat face have u got to show …….

    ur allah has to weep over ur deeds if u still hav an answer to it……… go ….and ask all ur pakistani brothers to do some self-introspection…..is this wat ur allah teaches u…… is this wat holy quran teaches u……

    i got a lot of words for u …….but if i use them my reply may not be posted……..

  239. Slingblade Says:

    Brother NAD.
    We believe in results, not the costs (have enuf money)
    So if you dont want another slice of your beloved cunt-ry, then shut up the f up and join your beggars band wagon
    Your rantings might get you a dollar or two extra!!

    Learn to respect before you lose perspect!

    Khuda hafiz

  240. NJS Says:

    The hub of all the terrorist activity’s in india / world = Pakistan the great. We don’t see any pirates are better or equal to pakistan terrorist groups . it’s shame of ur self . Don’t be proud of ur terroist group’s , one day the same evil force will turn back to u.

  241. the rajput ministry Says:

    take my advice ……. advanced weapons nahin……. thodi si himmat kisi se import karna shuru kar do…..
    advanced weapons ke saath agar jigraa nahi hua na……. to tumhare saare advanced weapons…… usi tarah hamare parks ki shaan banenge jaise tumhare PATTON tanks…… jo tumhari bahadur army longewala me chor ke bhaag gyee thi

  242. EZ Says:

    This article is stupid, the SD-10 is a BVR missile… seriously, they say this article is unbiased… Fools.

  243. Stan Says:

    For someone to be proud of his country’s terrorists because they could hold out against the enemies army just shows how dented his moral compass is. The world spits on your degradedness.

    innocent civilians? – the somali pirate ship (or thai fishing trawler as you claim it is) had attacked rather than stopping for checks.

  244. Stan Says:

    For someone to be proud of his country’s terrorists because they could hold out against the enemies army just shows how dented his moral compass is. The world spits on your degradedness.

    innocent civilians? – the somali pirate ship (or thai fishing trawler as you claim it is) had attacked rather than stopping for checks.

  245. nad Says:

    India created all problems by illegally occupying kashmir disregarding UN resolutions from its existance all the way thru !

    Are u guys in Russian or American boat? they are diverging … its gunna hurt u !

  246. NJS Says:

    Before separation of pakistan from india , pak itself not belongs to them , how come kashmir is belongs to them .After the separation of pakistan from india , pakis slowly occupied some parts of kashmir from india , the problem is at that time india side are not bothered about it to take steps ontime , know it is called pakistan occupied kashmir , the pak govt is seeding terrorist activity’s from POK to india/world .
    pakistan govt used terrorist groups to make more voilence in kashmir( to kill pandits & muslim community peoples of india ) . I think the war clouds is very near to destroy this kind of virus. we eagerly looking for that good day.

  247. OCEAN Says:

    We believe Pak is involved in terrorism,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, what u think about Lt Colonel Purohit …..Indian army’s greatest hero ,,,,,,,,i think ISI is involved into that,,,,,,,u can say that because u always say that………………….

  248. OCEAN Says:

    Indian space power is great,,,,,while JF17 took few years and 500 millions to develop,,,,,,,,,,,,,LCA has taken 2 decades to develop with only more than 2 billions already spent,,,,,,,,,,,,,, with no end in sight,,,,,,what a space power,,,,,,
    Great but always late space power

  249. nad Says:

    If India had some courage it was told to show that in 2001-2, but they chickened out … u guys dont have that juice which is needed to fight … instead of eating vegetable eat meat then u will have some courage !

    thats what u showed in mumbai .. 10 people could not be controlled by 2nd biggest army and 4th biggest nave / AF and what to talk about Coast Gaurds, customs and Anti terrorism force .. u killed your own Brig Kakrey…so sad !

    You know Lt Col Prohit (serving) .. if not google it !

  250. Raheel Says:

    Remember,

    We’ve 1:0 kill ratio with Israel
    PAF shot down israeli aircrafts without losing a single pilot or aircrafts. so the skill level does matter

    And time is very near that we’ve to perform again this time
    I feel that will be full and final performance.

    Pakistani pilots are better and have kept their quality and skill always up to the mark.

    Also remember, a worl record holder
    M.M. Alam is from Pakistan

    Abdussattar Alvi from Pakistan killed Israeli Aircrafts

    We are going to do do that again.

    Some guy in this said that “Pakistan Can never beat india till the end of this world”

    I would say yes, you might be right, but let me correct you with the STATEMENT OF PAKISTAN

    Till the end of this world…
    Akhand Bharat will never become a reality
    Because
    PAKISTAN is there :)
    No Chankiya + No Ashoka

    We will not try beating you, but you have to destroy us(which you can’t :d), as your military experts are saying this that for akhund bharat, pakistan is the only L*nd that penetrates in NON-AKHUND-INDIA :)
    :D

  251. unknown Says:

    BT it showed pakistan burkha tactics using fanatics to kill innocent civilians..if ur country is powerful come out all against INDia once for all u got ur butt kicked 4times perhaps every decade your country needs to be bombed.
    PAKISTAN have a right on kashmir then why u gave aksai-achin to china u morons.
    u’ll get kashmir if u crush INDia which means NEVER!!!!

  252. NJS Says:

    We already given a strong kickback to pakis in kargil war,i think u must be forgetted, try the same google .

    Animals will eat meat better than u , thats what u people become supporters for terrorist easily.

    We already proved our army power in Bangladesh war ( 90 thousand PAk POWs surrenderd to indian army. This is very great shameful history for Pakis.

  253. Nad Says:

    BD was a conspiracy by u guys.. where u had no problems with dealing with MUSLIMS of BD ! now u have no problems dealing with Afghan Muslims… u guys can only do conspiracies… Taliban are around the corner in Afghanistan to kick u out and BD which u helped in 71 is already kicking in your rear end nicely. eat this…
    the reason is again, u guys dont eat meat .. all animals and all humans eat meat .. only HINDUS do not ! they eat VEGEES… so u are neither animal nor human… u are only hindu !

  254. the rajput ministry Says:

    @ NJS
    why d u waste ur energy and time replying to such idiots. we proved wat we are in the past. they still have,nt got it, so we,ll prove it again. conditions wahi rahengi, India won,t be an agressor, wo taj inhe hi lene denge. but definitely we,ll have the last say.

    and please keep this topic for discussin TEJAS and jf-17. baki to battle field me dekhi jayegi yaar . we get nothin utterin shit out here.

  255. rupeshkagu Says:

    I don,t Know why the people are not try to determine the difference between wrong and right, both the country is very good just because of some bad people we fight, the whole world know about india and pakistan i just say to pakistan people please check your you area some of you soil is used by terriost and i don,t think pakistani and not aware of this.

    So don,t discussing do something against terrrisom, everything is cleared and pakistan people are still don,t try to realise emotion of innocent people, if you want to fight
    come face-to-face, why trageting innocent people.

  256. vicky Says:

    Hindu religion is oldest religion in the world. It gathered wisdom when the other parts of the world was living under darkness. Hindus are far more wise and they created a culture which no other religion can match. Trhough this knowledge they come to know that humans should not eat meat. Now only the modern world accepts this fact scientifically. You illiterates and mad people still gropping the dark. What is the diffrence between a dog and a meat eating human. Same applies to Pakis as they have no brain to think. They borrow it from the Chinese which rely on religion originates from India. Hinduism is not a religion but a way of life. It is a religion of peace which is not possible with pakis around you. Therefore sooner or later the whole world has to destroy pakistan to get rid of Pures who are terrorists.

  257. GP Says:

    NAD
    I’ve been reading this blogs for quite sometimes and the only thing i can say about u is that u must me a lonely lonely person. U’ve got all this hatred in you and u look for ways to take it out anyway u can. I came here looking for discussions about JF-17 and HAL Tejas not to read ur and others rants about indians and pakis… one more thing u guys have attacked every chance u’ve got while india has shown restrain in the face of biggest threats that takes both guts and courage and eating meat got nothing to do with it. We believe in karma keep eating that meat ull see ur conciquences soon

  258. Hassan Tariq Qureshi Says:

    dudes why are u fighting with can and could lets see tha past study the war of 1948 1965 and 1971 and also 1998 when u see 1948 pakistan had nothing else of some old guns and india attacked on kashmir and pakistan defended most of its land and when u see 1965 india despite of its huge air force ,navy ,and artilary and a large amount of tanks, india was not able to cross BRB canal and pakistan not only defend but also occupied indian land also which was given back to india.Pakistan made (chawanda,Sialkoat) graveyard of tanks for india.When u look at pakistan air force u can see one pakistan pilot MM Alam killed 5 indian planes.Pakistans navy had also played a huge role and one pakistans submarine Ghazi gave a very tuff time to indian navy.
    Lets come to 1971 conflict u can see india stoped all the aid to pikistani solders in bangladash and there were no weapons in the hands of pakistani solders.Inspite of losing that war we should remember paf destroyed 100s of iaf planes.
    lets move towords the conflict of kargil we can see how pakistan fougt in that battle and there were no indian solders to pick up thair dead solders and after that india begged america to help them and america forced pakistan to leave and other international pressure made pakistan leave.While leaving, indians attacked on Pakistani Solders with the Help of american settlite.
    Now come to the current situation why india is not attacking on pakistan.Because india knows about pakistans misile technology in ten minutes pakistan can destroy india from Amartasar to Kalkatta and it is true u can conform that from ur army.
    Inspite of all its IT engineers indian intelligence was totally failed to stop militants to entering in mombay and their huge army clear all the militants from mumbai giving the lives of more then 300 people is this the way that professional forces do their job.
    at the end the truth is that it is the courage,faith,discipline,and hard training that makes an army superior and thanks to god pakistans army is full of that.
    at the end i think it must be concluded that indians are so much afraid of Lashkara Tayba and Jamat-ud-Dawa they could not handle them how can they handle pak army
    Think Again.

  259. sarthak garg Says:

    HAL tejas is an indegenously built plane while jf 17 was built by china and pakis just want some credit cause theyr primitives and suk hard!!!!!

    HAL tejas is considered a 4.5 gen craft while JF thunder is considered a 3 gen craft
    bloody loosers!!!!!
    some morons like jabbar are comparing the cheap plastic chinese toy to f-16s lol
    get a life moron , india is way ahead

    india doesnt even consider porkistan a rival , u r insignificant in our media , we focus our attention on real rivals like china

    porkistan is our practice target
    the day we start practicing ……….
    u really dont wanna know cunts..

  260. NJS Says:

    Don’t be proud of eating dead animals bones,flesh & blood./ Supporting to terrorist / Interested to see innocent people’s blood.
    i really worry ,whom i am talking to …..!!!!! is it SATTAN / Demon / Dracula . where are u staying in this earth !!!! is it Pakistan.

  261. Ali Ahmad Says:

    There is a lot of debate with regards to the performance of both the air crafts. I have a simple question, where is LCA? JF-17 Thunder is almost ready. It’s a reality whereas LCA is nothing but a myth.

    The ground reality is that it will never be produced and flown. The debate is useless. It should be stopped and the people of both countries should debate on something else.

  262. Danyal Says:

    While alot of ppl here seem to be fighting over whats better they are mostly coming from heart and not facts.
    LCA -> Failed project
    JF 17 Flying but nothing being produced in pakistan. All in all the CNC machines required to produce parts are still not up and running due to some delay in construction.
    I believe india is planning to develop the raptors locally which will give it a major uplift as compared to pakistan fleet. I myself am a pakistani so lets talk facts here. JF17 is a 3rd gen plane LCA was to be a 5th gen plane but never took off the ground. JF17 is designed to be a ground assault plane with capability of air to air combat. At best you can get the performance of a 4th gen out it. but if put up against a 4.5 gent plane or the raptors its like telling a fly to go against a swatter. Yes its great for pakistan to develop this jet but what we should look at this project as a stepping stone in our aviation and not the end. We must look to build something like the f18 or f22 … also try to get hands on j10 and j11 technology for local production.

    JF 17 will have BVR capability too so dont underestimate this jet.

  263. Royal Tiger Says:

    Friends, There is absalutely no comparison of India and Pakistan. India is way ahead of Pakistan in all aspects. Comming to defence, Pakistan’s Madrasa’s does not teach space research. They teach how to put a bomb in your own ass and jump to the crowd. Thats the only thing that I see pakistan has edge over india. Suicide bombing.
    The moment USA stops its military aid, Pakistani military will have to work in Farms.

  264. fuindia Says:

    With your forces on the border you don’t have the balls to attack because :

    you eat cow dung it drink its piss can’t do anything with all that shit in your body and then you bathe in ganga that is filled with the crap of 1 billion indians HAHAHAHAHAH

  265. Terrance Says:

    LaCXMs0EbvDsM

  266. great99 Says:

    @NAD !
    *don’t start communalism here.

    *BD a conspiracy ! What a joke. Look at this :
    in 1971 BD people were being massacred in BD by PAK army. Crores of refugees landed in INDIA, who were provided with facilities feasable. It cost dearly to india. It was cheap to help Mukti Bahini than have whole BD as refugee. So you it’s more than just a conpiracy !!
    *Who massacred people in BD, Hindus or Muslims !! Neither of them , just pakis.(no point of saying HIDUS)
    *If Hinduis is cause of destruction as per You, Name any terrist incident, in which 4000-5000 people were killed, organised by HINDUS for spreading religion. Perhaps no Answer.
    *If PAK is so great, how could it let BD slip from Hands, unlike India, which could manage J & K inspite of China against it.
    *There are dozens of ISLAMIC and Cristian nations around the world. How many HINDU nations are There ????? None (Nepal got Repubulic and Seculiar)
    *Communalism doesn’t gain moral, social or judicial support in INDIA, unlike PAKISTAN.
    *if all this non-sense JIHAD is war aginst other religion afterall, why doesn’t They try some weaker nations such as NEpal or Bhutan, or perhaps strongers (aggressive)ones RUSSIA ,CHINA or USA ????
    *This proves religion is not the matter, it’s something else, the hatred, filled by bad schools and bad rel. Teachings in youth in PAK.
    *ISLAM verbal meaning is PEACE, killing innocents can necer be ISLAM.
    *If jiahd is to protect ISLAM against attack from othwer religions, why does JEWS or SIKHS do not wage a war ??
    *I come to conclusion that PAKISTAN is not a nation, but an anti nation.
    *perhaps another conclusion is that ISLAM is under threat, near to exticntion, but not from other religions , but from MUSLIMS themselves. These terrorists are going to kill ISLAM forever by miguiding everyone.
    * IN india we study reports from NSSO which tells that no pary or canididate has has ever game more than 50% votes of a single religion, this shows religion does not decide political outcome. (unlike PAKISTAN where students learns ways to make BOMBS)
    * there have been no. of communal riots in INDIA, but they are always condemned, never gain moral grounds and media always criticses such parties and people, unlike PAKISTAN.
    If any caste , religion, group, Nation, teaches to kill others, intolerence to other goups, INDIANS spurn it like a cur out of our way.

    and about JF-17 vs LCA.
    JF-17 paks mainrole fighter
    LCA indias light combat fighter
    Su-30MKI mainrole fighter

    where THE HELL DOES JF-17 STAND AGINST SU-30MKI ????????????(well of course idon’t accept JF-17 is better than LCA )

    and yes SU-30 MKI is world’s 3rd best not second, after JSF and F-22 Raptors.

  267. Nad Says:

    Great 69 or 99 whatever…
    India is the biggest hypocrit in the world..they show nice and soft image to the world and keep their knife ready behind their to to stab any one . actually Hindus dont have enough courage to fight like a man and kill 5000 people. it needs courage… For their mean gains they dont have problems in licking arab’s asses or afghan asses( your foriegn min Shaking hands with Saud al faisal and Karzai, dont u fell ashamed). they are more muslims than pakistanis.. so hindu banya just sees his gains..
    As for BD or other countries like Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives or Myanmar , they all have straind relations with india and good relations with pakistan. this proves that india is rejected by all.
    u guys blame every thing on pakistan b4 envestigations and later u get embarrased by people like Active duty Col Prohit..who blew up “Samjhota Express.”

    What india is doing in kashmir with 700,000 troops. if its your part like UP, or Mumbai, Dehli etc. then u dont need 700,000 troops there !

    As for JF-17 Vs Teja…
    Your comparison is totally out . See below:-
    1 . JF-17 will destroy LCA
    2 . F-16 C/D Block 52 will Destroy every thing like Su-30s
    3 . F-16 A/B MLU will destroy Mir 2000 and Mig – 29 A / K
    4 . J-10 Will destroy MCA ( If it ever gets airborne in 15 years)

    As for china … my dear … they are the biggest industry in the world and are producing quality products. You will be surprised in future. They have already stopped producing Su-27/30s becoz of reliability problems … it doesnt want to go in air mostly…now they are persuing J-10 … and JXX( plz google it) and J-10 is F-16 ..oh my God u have no idea … its a Typhoon class Fighter .. thats why china is preferring it over Su-30s. so beware of it.. PAF is getting it.
    Have u seen what we have done in last 10 years vs what u have done ?

    U destroyed an Atlantique by 2 mig 21s, whereas we shot down a mig-23 , a mig 21 in kargil, one UAV by our F-16 and now pushed away your Mirage 2000s by our F-16s… Why u didnt send Su-30 … and where will u park them ,,out in the open ..they will always be vulnerable.. u will never build special hardened shelters for them u do not have money for that .. we are getting German Subs.. to kick your ass. watch out Kandla . mumbai, banglor even cacutta are vulnerable…

    sweet dreams..

  268. Nad is a turd Says:

    YO nab… ur such a fukin retard… u shud learn how to shut the fuk up.. like seriously….the F-16s are shit in the PAF.. the IAF 29s and su-30s were able to lock on the 16s 80 kms away…

    and for ur comments below:

    “As for JF-17 Vs Teja…
    Your comparison is totally out . See below:-
    1 . JF-17 will destroy LCA
    2 . F-16 C/D Block 52 will Destroy every thing like Su-30s
    3 . F-16 A/B MLU will destroy Mir 2000 and Mig – 29 A / K
    4 . J-10 Will destroy MCA ( If it ever gets airborne in 15 years)”

    Can u fukin provide sources?!?!??!?!?!?!!?? THAT SHIT MAKES ME LAUGH JF-17 is scrap made from mig-21 (what a joke.. Chine is using pakistan’s money to develop it and then sell those planes back to pak…. China is not even considering that shit plane for der own airforce… its gunna use dat money from pak fools to fund their 5th gen aircraft) … its not even considered a proper 4th gen aircraft… as for LCA it falls in the 4-4.5 gen.

    As far is JXX is concerned……… WHERE THE FUK DID U HEAR ABT PAF “GETTING IT”….. LOL… even if it gets an offer PAF cant fukin afford it…Thats y, US has to give pakistan millions of dollars EACH month to run their OWN FUKIN country.

    Next time u make your dickworth comments, which u will in reply, PLZ provide FUKIN SOURCES to back ur arguement up….

    Peace fuker….

  269. Pritash Says:

    OLA AMIGOS’
    CAN WE ALL STICK TO THE TOPIC OF THIS FORUM. THNX.

  270. great99 Says:

    i do have sweet dreams daily, but you live in dreams come out of it.
    *india has taken resposibility for security of bhutan from foreign invasions. who’s closely related to bhutan ??
    *Sri lanka ready to hand over LTTE chief . Means India has good extradict treaty with Sri-Lanka, unlike PAK not ready to ahnd over hand over main accused.
    *WE wan’t global peace. That’s why we shake hand hands with anybody, even with dogs like you, but u lick feets of NATO and SEATO members.
    *Mauritius good relations with PAK??? HA / joke of the day.
    Culturally or polictically , Mauritius closely related to India. Most of trade it carries out with India.
    *BD has does not have very good relation with India due to u terrorists. But HASIAN is in power, ready to kick terror asses.
    * ONe thing i accept is that PAKIS, can shoot down only those palnes in the world , which no one can, which,are ofcourse, t paper planes!!!!!!!!!!lol!!!!!!!!!
    @nad,
    your mind and intelligence is betraying you, and ou’re just asking same ques gain and agian.
    *Khaled tanks are not paks , they are bought and renamed, just like bakhtar shikan.
    *Our gules will shoot your JF-17
    *Revovler will shoot HATF missiles.
    AK-47 will shoot chinese JXX

    *what , shocked ?? If pak missiles can shoot LCA and Su-30 MKI so easily, then we must bring catapults(gulel) to shoot pak planes. i have made same comparison as u did .God! it has become child’s play to shoot plane these days ??
    *Again i say, INDIA is not a HINDU nation.
    *Chinese product world class ??// SUPERJOKE.
    *IND gov. banned all mobiles with invalid IMEI number , 90% of them were CHINESE handsets.
    *US gov. banned all CHINESE jewwelery ’cause they just bought cmp. monitors at cheap rate, and used galss to make cheap jewlery which conatined lead, harmful for health.
    *recently in india there was a case where nokia batteries begin exploding, they all were chinese manufactured .
    *please tell any indigenousnly dev. technology by PAK execpt terrorism . FOr ALLAH”S sake, PLEASE????
    *INDIA has SU-30 MKI , much advanced than chinese mainrole fighter SU-30 MKK, read on WIKIPEDIA, a neutra source.
    *banning SU-27 does not mean SU-30 is bad. USE some sense, if u have.
    *the only reason why INDIA is not kiking your ASS (u don’t have front portion, got it cut) is that war is no solution. It would only encourage activities,(major export of PAK), and PAK will keep shouting ISLAM is in DANGER blah!
    *it will be heartbreaking to know that the subs u acquire are being retired by germany. HMM! Why are they selling retired subs??? Oh! For PAK deserve no more than that??
    *Indias SAGARIKA missile and Advanced vessel are ready to kick your *****(fill in, we don’t spoil our tongue)
    *I can’t understand why u are arguing uselessly.INDIA does not suppose PAK as an ENEMY ‘acause u are not worth it, u are no potential danger. We look forward more potentila danger like CHINA!
    *See http://www.globalfirepower.com to check in your realities and aukat.
    *The only danger ISLAM has is from muslims themselves, cause they are destrying rela doctrines and principals, creating false ones, encouraging terrorism. Protect your religion from yourselves.
    *Your national anthem writer also wrote:
    MAZHAB NAHI SIKHATA AAPAS MEIN BAIR RAKHNA
    (religion does not teach religious inteolreance)

  271. Nad Says:

    Mr69.
    Tushar has gone from this blog, he had some selfrespect. but u are a big bay ghairat… aaj ghalti say “palak Paneer” ki jaga ” pork paneer” kha li kiya” ?
    If german sub marines are so bad .. then why India is crying to the whole world aganst pakistan getting it? why r u sooo scared? jao ja kar ” linga puja ” karo ya “yoni puja “, “Kundalini yoga”
    (next time i will write more on this)

    Kaheen Pak Navy ya Air Force tum logon ki Dhulai na kar day !
    Remember russians said about IAF ” if monkeys are flying our planes it their fault not our planes’ !
    Read ” Air warfare in Missile age ..its an american book
    Sweet Dreams !

  272. Simen Says:

    I accept that India has supperior tech then Pakistan, so is Indian economy and pupolation to. Many here argue that Pakistan has imported many military items, it useless to argue abou where origing of Pak weapons are from.

    India knows that Pakistan have atomic, hydrogen bombs and missiles. Wich will be used against India incase of a Pakistans excistence is in danger due to war with India.
    We will just me mutually destroyed, so its better to dont even think about war. Even a superior Indian army will face heavy losses if Pakistan uses WMD.

    Hindues and muslims have for centuries lived togheter in India, i belive both can live peacefully togheter in future to. I am sure both countries dont want war, cause a war with todays deadly weapons would send both countries back in time. All development wich have taken place since independence will be wasted. Havent anybody thought about how deadly todays weapons have become ?

    Instead of talking war, both countries should discuss ways of developing the region and make life better for south asians. Have our people everthough aboyt welfare state, like many Western nations are, why dont spend money on more welfare etc etc.

  273. great99 Says:

    Tushar went because he can’t argue with dogs (mr. cut). He has other works to do, studying and etc. unlike you who takes terrorists training in day, get online in night, communalist speeches in morning.
    *so pak finally got a navy. Hpe u get an carier warship soon.
    *india has 12 n-subs. How many N-subs doees pak have ?
    *anything in hands of terrorists is dangerous. Your all attention is to somehow do some damage to INDIA.I was proud to see true ISLAMISTS stand against pAK in fight agianst terrorists.
    *In 99 war , pak just had 50 planes, equal number. which AMBANI has.
    *when u attacked mumbai recently , did not your leaders told you that true muslims would always take pride in doing last ceremony. U refused dead body of your fellows shameless. He died for your false attempts to harm india, and u refused dead body.U did the same in kargil war . U call them soldiers and left thier body like that.Ya ALLAH!!
    *u don’t even have any basic of warfare. Earlier your so called newspaper specialist ALI KHAN ORKAZI left hte forum because he knew pak’s fate and reality, and had some basiscs of warfare. u just get training how to explde a bomb, ALI was much better in arguing.

    *and next time Please for allah’s sake give sources on INTERNET, don’t just bark like insane dogs, or i pack u up and send u to some chinese asylum.

    *

  274. nad Says:

    Oh Wow , look “Pig 69″ has cheeks to talk. u guys have 1.2 and increasing filthy divided population to eat your economy. I was away for my research for a couple of days or else i would have given a punch right away.

    We are dangerous , and dangerous know the art of war.. u are pacifist ( like gandhi)..so whats the point in spending money on weapons when u cant have the courage or competency to use them.

    u have leased nuc subs from russia, u dont own them.. we have 12 of our own .. AIPs are coming up .. we dont need nuc subs to screw u guys !
    I will never givein to ppl like u , thats how our nation is !..n your nation is like tushar who leave the field…
    why on earth u have not figured out which boat u have to ride Russian or American? ref: mmrca / c-130 J
    sweet dream !!!

  275. Realistic Says:

    It is strange how Pakis are obsessed with India. What a pity..even after 50 years of independence they still can’t be free thinkers. Yes, internet is a nice place to hurl explicits; but can somebody spell frustration??? Pakis say they built the JF 17 jointly with China, can someone specify which aircraft component they helped to built – the seat cover is it?? I mean guys, Pakis can’t even make a car… they once prided themselves of making the cheapest car…. that it was a golf cart is another story.

  276. Realistic Says:

    somebody commented about linga puja, let us keep religion away from this site….. Bet, no one wants to hear about the personal life of a so called enlightened soul. And I mean facts recorded in history.

  277. great99 Says:

    *u are really a annoyware, and totally insane
    *MMRCA is joint venture, to create a 5th gen. aircraft.
    *hercules C-130j is world’s largest troop carier.Just like chinese (India also placed order)airlines buys Airbus A-380, cause it is biggest in the world, similarily we ordered it ’cause we need for our huge army.
    *your chinese masters (but traitors for us)were also trying for it, but ISRAEL gave them no lift, got it.
    *Just like i respect your leaders, u must respect ours. They got nothing to do with this.
    *We are not like gandhi ji ’cause no one ever can be .It was his speciality which made him great, not picking up violence when opressed by britishers.I or noone can have that qualities. Remeber role he played for our(both) freedom, and respect him.
    *Tushar left the field respecting this verse:
    SHAMA SHOBHTI US BHUJANG KO JISKE PAS GARAL,
    USKO KYA JO DANT HEEN, VISHAR HEEn VINEET SARAL HO.
    (forgiveness is for those snake which have fangs, not for u people who are venomless, fangless, totally harmless)

    *All u can do is contact ISI, take some guns and shoot some innocent people. It is easy to take life, than to save it.

    *One final ques(not related to IQ):Have u ever lost someone close to u in any terrorist incident, whom u loved, but was slained by them? (please answer honestly)???

  278. nad Says:

    i will ans last Q first. Yes i lost a blood relative who was killed by RAW 3 years back.
    ISI is an honest and true to the cause military intel agancy.. not like RAW .. who hire innocent Afghanis and use them to kill our friends , chinese engineers in gwadar and else where. the sad part is , you guys dont even call it intel agency. its called RAW..research and analysis wing..whts this ? some kinda joke or what ?
    And I am totally pissed off with your pooor knowledge about molitary hardware… i think i dont even have to correct u .. u are so far away from some sence of what these systems are which u are talking about.. like MMRCA and C-130J !

    MMRCA is , those 126 Medium tech multi role aircraft for which u are showing the money to all aspirant countries/companies… which include F-16s and F-18s also… but ultimately u guys are going to buy MiG-35s from russia, or else they will give u hard time maintaining Su-30s and MiGs. C-130J is not the largest troop carrier.. it rather one of the smallest ..smaller than C-5, C-141, C-17, a-400, An – 124, An-225 and even IL-76 which u already have 25+6… so whats the need to buy 6 C-130Js..